Mind Like Water

I like it a lot. I think ZU > Gordian blade, but whatever, this list is the new shit and i will be trying it as soon as the cards are in my hands.

@holding Gordian is good when code gates like lotus and tollbooth get stacked. Otherwise I'd agree Zu is superior simply for its smc price.

@gumonshoe That's a good point, although i can't help but thing it's a longer term pay off rather than an immediate one. I'm trying to get my head around the maths haha. At first glance it seems like there isnt anything different between the two breakers for late game runs (when ICE will be stacked 2-3 deep) but ZU.13 Key Master is clearly better for the early game because it only costs 1 (or 0 if your kate).

So consider the following stack: Lotus Field, Tollbooth, Enigma.

Base cost of Gordian Blade is 4 (to install it, not counting clicks at this point).

Base cost of ZU.13 Key Master is 1.

Cost to break the stack with Gordian Blade: 12 credits (3 for Lotus Field, 7 for Tollbooth, 2 for Enigma.

Cost to break the stack with ZU.13 Key Master: 15 credits (4 for Lotus Field, 8 for Tollbooth, 3 for Enigma.

Then, factoring in the install cost they both require you to have 16 credits to install the breaker and make the run. However if you wanted to make that run a second time, this changes from 16:16 to 28:31 in favor of Gordian Blade, then on a 3rd run to 40:46.

So i guess Gordian Blade does have a late game edge, although i'm not sure it would be enough to convince me it's a better include than ZU.13 Key Master - except perhaps in decks like this where you aim to have one strong decoder and one alone.

Your math is off @holding , if they are stacked, as Gordian Blade keeps its strength for the whole run. Still not as easy of a decision... because how often will they be stacked like that? Still, I love the deck and will be trying out something similar ``@gumonshoe`.

@elderbookwyrm ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah of course. I thought i must be missing something obvious. No it's still not an easy choice but that actually clears up a lot of miss-givings i had for Gordian Blade (in that i couldn't understand why people used it so much :P).

Regarding the ICE stack - that's not as uncommon as you would imagine. All of those ICE have been in my corp decks pretty much consistently, while it was an extreme example i don't think stacked CG's is something you will only see a few games, 6/10 games i would imagine is a fair figure and that is only that low due to NEH and horizontal play.

@holding , I've been ninja'd here's the correct math.

Gordian maintains its strength across encounters: (s is strength, t is tollbooth tax, b is breaking a routine, c is final creds)

• Lotus Field=(2s)+2s+1b=3c
• Tollbooth=(4s)+1s+3t+1b=5c
• Enigma=(5s)+0s+2b=2c

Breaking with gordian is really only 10c in this case. And every time you run through a server with 2 lotus fields, its 3c savings (the install cost).

Thanks @gumonshoe and @elderbookwyrm, can't believe i missed something so obvious when it was printed on the card haha.

My real question is sentry breaker for this deck; I think its generally assumed that mimic is the best early game breaker and then something on the side can deal with everything else, but I think we're really starting to see 4 strength sentry breakers coming into vogue. Cortex Lock, Data Raven, Ichi 1.0, & Changeling are the four big ones for me; but we should also be seeing a lot more Archer as well. Should this deck be using a combination of mimic and utility breakers, maybe 1x Mimic, 1x Femme Fatale & 1x Utopia Shard? Or should it use Garrote and just break the stuff?

The popularity of PPVP Kate and RegAss MaxX means that Mimic is indeed everywhere. Past 2 SC's i saw those ID's account for 50% of the field both times. The efficiency of Mimic puts so many low str sentries to shame i know every time i build a corp deck i aim for str 4 sentries.

I'd be tempted to go all in on Garrote and not suffer the tempo hit from trying to find your other killer when you need it, but that would be a choice very particular to this style of Blitz deck.

Sentry breaker is always an issue... with every deck outside of stealth switchblade... as long as you have the and influence... I'll have to agree with Garrote in this deck. Also a fan of pay more for less later... basically even with no stacked code gates... after 3 breaks Gordian Blade breaks even with ZU.13 Key Master and gets better every break after. Femme Fatale would be good in a deck if it utilized Test Run with it. Test Run /scavenge would also be good for Garrote, however with no Clone Chips you need the scavenge for Cerberus "Lady" H1. You would have to change up some things considerably to add utility, when consistency and s might be just better. Needless to say when these cards come out I'll be testing them like a madman.

@elderbookwyrm Completely agree with popular CG's and things turning towards glacier a little bit more post-clot, long range breakers like Gordian Blade and Garrote make the most sense. I feel dumb for overlooking Gordian now haha.

I think the money is there for Garrote in this deck. With an SMC its only as much as a Femme Fatale.

I like this list and it's something I've been thinking about (although I'd probably go 1x Femme 1x Mimic 1x Atman instead of Garrotte) I can't really see the benefit of Hayley here. There's not a lot of building of hardware or programs to be done in this deck and it's unlikely you'll even have more than 1 hardware/ program/resource in hand when installing most turns. Probably better to play the same list but out of Kate for the discount on installing.

@NicoleyMoley Kate might be good too, but being able pull a breaker out of hand midrun because you popped an SMC just makes the early game pressure that much more meaningful. Also, installing commet and voicepad as a single click, or voicepad and plascrete are a big deal too.

The real question is how much is a click worth in this deck, and the answer is probably about 3-4 credits. So if you use Hailey's ability only 2x's in the game, you've probably saved/made a few credits as well.

I also really like that it means SMC into a breaker can also get your sharpshooter or deus x into play midrun from hand.

The agility is what I like more and it may be possible to tweak the deck to really user her ability more often; but its a matter of what targets are worth it. I'm not saying that this deck is peak. But it's better than any other shaper deck you could be playing right now, even if you maybe want to grab a shard or make minor tweaks to have the agility of say, calimsha kate; the pure amount of click compression and money saving is huge.

Maker's > Dirty laundry for instance is baller against RP.

Btw, 1x same old could probably be a clone chip; just depends on how much you want an extra legwork.

Yeah I'll definitely be trying a few different Comet based Shaper decks when Breaker Bay hits, out of Kate/Hayley/CT. I think it will take a lot of playtesting to see which ID can make the most use out of it, I'm currently working on a CT build which I think could be very strong but it's hard to know what will work until you can actually play with the cards and see! :)

@NicoleyMoley, CT might be a good direction to go, just to increase the consistancy and speed through the deck; but honestly, it might push me to levy #3.

Playing this deck feels like village+smithy dominion.

Let me just point out that not running Stimhack in Hayley is completely insane. It's such a totally crazy followup event off Comet, you cannot afford not to be playing at least two. Plus you can clone chip something with Stimhack creds, then spend Stimhack credits to install a program from your hand with Hayley.

Seriously, cut a legwork and maybe a QT and fit them.

mimic with SS and Deus handles most sentries, but taxes your recursion. You can also do d4v1d + mimic + parasite, instaparasite at the end of the corps turn, get the counter, and bam str 3 sentry. Barring that, run dinosaurus and femme. Get a bypass and str 4 sentry breaker, but then you need test run scavenge.

Short answer, shapers don't handle sentries very well. :P

@hhooo, you'd think that, but the deck has so much money that it doesn't need the stimhacks most of the time. In the matchups you'd want them in you'd be risking putting your self in scorch range. Also there is no clone chip in the deck to use those creds. If you want the card, sure you can have it. I don't think you need it. Legwork is certainly more valuable.

@x3r0h0ur, there's no influence for d4v1d. And Dino is a non starter. Comet is a beast. I'd tussle femme in for the bypass and that's about it. A goal with this deck is to reach a point where your deck is completely fluid, but your rig is set. Like a man riding a wave, you are ready to turn and balance as necessary, but no individual problem can break you because you bend to it or break it as necessary.

youtu.be

Yea i was just speaking to current tropical shaper answers to the sentry problem. I hope we get a shaper killer this cycle...one that isn't a turd.

Creeper Fork! ;)

I mirror the sentiment that a single Femme Fatale would be good. It is a better answer to some heavily taxing ICE that you need to repeatedly get past. (Tollbooth, Archer, any of the Space ICE, or even a cheaper way to get past Curtain Wall, or any high str ICE that is sitting particularly on R&D with this deck) Have you proxy'd this deck out yet? How useful was the Day Job influence. I ask because that is where I would probably end up cutting an influence for Femme Fatale, and squeezing in another Same Old Thing to recur the superior Lucky Find or Run event as the game dictates. Similar to how Lucky Find is better with Comet, I find this is the first deck outside Account Siphon recursion I don't feel Same Old Thing is too click intensive. Basically Comet turns Same Old Thing into a free deja vu for events. Since it effectively only costs 2 to install and use. Not to mention you can install it on a different turn. Could take out both Day Job's if that doesn't hurt the economy too much and throw in a Shard and Femme. My statements of course... need some testing. I'll sleeve up a proxy for this deck for this weeks open gaming here.

I have actually proxied this.

About twice through the deck there's always a turn where you'd love to spike up in credits, possibly upping to 20 in the bank to allow yourself maximal opportunity to do damage on the following turns (which is why I went from 3 of the card to 2, because 3 was simply too many). On that turn, you play day job and usually a gamble/dirty laundry/or something. And what it does is just get you into a really good place where you're not bouncing between 0 and 12 credits, but instead bouncing between 10 and 25 credits. This is really the sweet spot for a runner to be at, where they start controlling the game and the corp feels like their moves don't matter any more. It puts you out of sea source, midseasons, etc and into that spot that Andy deck's used to get into from siphoning all game long.

If you're looking to change the influence allocation, I'd start with garrote, not the money. Especially if you're already looking to change the way you use sentry breakers.

I tried out the deck, and I have to agree with you. The threat of getting in anywhere... anytime with a well timed Day Job is great. Another thought... as I have an unhealthy attachment to Nasir decks. I wonder if there is a way to squeeze in Personal Workshop. It would have so many synergies with the deck. You could get that Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker-like discount (that is arguably better as it definitely works every turn, at least after you install it). You can control when her ability goes off, even on the corporations turn. Your massive amount of money is even more flexible as you only spend it when you know you need it... all the while getting 1 free credit a turn. Programs and hardware you don't need right now or are redundant could also hide out on it (at least until the counters came off) so that you don't see them when you are going through your deck the 2nd/3rd time. Just a thought. Not sure if it would actually improve the consistency, but the discount and control may or may not be worth it. Also with how popular meat damage is lately, I'm also afraid of just having a singleton Plascrete Carapace. Your thoughts?

@elderbookwyrm I don't think there are enough targets for a work shop to be worth the opportunity cost, but maybe you can think of a better use for them or your play style likes it. As far as scorch, the Deck's current plan is to out money until the plascrete shows up. You've got to make the call that for you best though.

Old call this the skeleton. It's got all the bones, but now you've got to decide which muscles to work on for its environment. Just don't lose sight of what's good and working.

What about Indexing? Comet Indexing into Maker's Eye?

@bw, probably worth considering, but not sure if its worth spending resources to run the same server twice like that very often.