No Sleep Natman (Atman Nasir primer / guide)

Contrast 1710

This deck is the result of a lot of testing with the Nasir Atman concept, after multiple tweaks to adapt it to the current meta via a bunch of tutorable silver bullets. The deck thrives on efficiency, and uses a "just in time" approach, with special emphasis on not wasting a single credit. It is super fun and hard to pilot! I'm planning to take it to Spanish tournaments and report on it. So far it deals surprisingly well with most major archetypes, including NEH Astrobiotics. I've really fallen in love with this deck and I'm doing my best to be a pioneer in taking Atman Nasir to a competitive level.

Your game plan is to set up powerful hardware pieces and sources of recurring credits, and maintaining constant, fearless pressure while staying prepared to respond to any ice. Your credit level will stay close to 0, with some small spikes when running against certain archetypes (will go into that in the matchup section). Don't worry, your Atmans and Parasites will allow you to run broke. I've ran against a 4 ice deep deep Blue Sun server with Curtain, Hadrian's and two Elis with 0 starting credits.

Here's the guide to pilot this deck. Disclaimer: The guide is huge! Feel free to skip to parts that interest you :).

Economy: Where are your Sure Gambles?

Nasir is probably the most unorthodox runner when it comes to econ, and this particular list goes one step further. You won't see any traditional economy here. However, well piloted, this deck generates ridiculous amounts of money. I've seen many people dismiss lists like these outright because they lack any of the "normal" economy pieces, but believe me, they are not needed.

  • The main piece is personal workshop. You really, really want this card out; keep any hand with PW on it, and mulligan if you don't have PW, Diesel, SMC or replicator (I will go into why these are important opening cards later).

  • Order of Sol is another major player in Nasir's economy. Remember all those people that said it sucks? Don't listen to them! This card is completely fantastic. In case you haven't seen it in action yet, remember that it procs on both your turn and the Corp's turn, which means you can use it to pump money into Personal Workshop at an astounding 2 credits per turn rate. It also pays off the turn it comes out, so it essentially costs 1 credit. Learning to adapt OOS to Nasir's ID ability is a very important skill to develop. Remember that OOS let's you "carry over" a single credit when you hit a just rezzed piece of ice.

  • Stimhack: Stimhack is both an economy card and a surprise attack. It is a table-turning ambush that you should keep in your hand until the best opportunity arises, so I will go into its uses later. However, it can buy you those two RD interfaces on the workshop in a pinch, so it's good to count it as Economy too (and a damn fine card for that matter).

  • Recurring credits: Cyberfeeder, Toolbox, Net Celebrity. These aren't strictly speaking economy (with the exception of NC, maybe), but they're worth mentioning. Remember that Feeders and Toolboxes allow you to pump Atman when it hits the table, which can be very useful. Also, count Cyberfeeder when considering your options from cracking SMC, since it will pay for parasites, nerve agent and datasuckers.

Facechecking 101: How to exploit Corp ice without blowing yourself up

Do you like facechecking Jinteki turn 1? You are going to enjoy this deck. Fearless facechecking is not only possible but pretty safe too, as long as you follow some basic precautions.

The primary tool for facechecking is, of course, Self-Modifying Code, together with the knowledge that your deck runs Deus Ex and Sharpshooter. Don't be fooled by its flowery look, SMC is nothing but a shield, a glowing piece of anti-ice armor. Turn 1 SMC -> Run is a fantastic play even against the gnarliest Jinteki decks (even though I'd wait to have the Net Shield against PE in particular). If you get a really beefy piece of ice rezzed, you can crack the SMC pre-encounter and fetch Deus Ex, then break the ice and get out with the access and the money. If the ice isn't that big or dangerous, you can use the pre-encounter money to get yourself a 0 counter Atman, which is always necessary, and bounce. Even if you run with 0 credits, almost every single ice in the game will give you enough cash on-encounter to fetch either Deus or Shooter, and the few inconvenient exceptions will not kill you outright.

It is very tempting to use SMC to do cool Parasite tricks and to find matchup specific silver bullets, but I'd advise to keep one copy out there at all times (or have it accessible through clone chip) to save your bacon in case you hit an inopportune Ichi / Shinobi / Grim, etc. Seeing a big ice rezzed should be a source of pleasure, never an "oh shit" moment, and SMC is key to that.

So far we've talked about dealing with the ice itself, however, accesses are another story and you should be aware of the dangers you can face there too. Be prepared to deal with Snare in the decks in which it makes sense. Always run with 3 spare credits against upgraded servers if you expect Ash. If running against PE, there is another set of precautions that I will explain in the matchup section that make it reasonably safe to multiaccess R&D.

Personal Workshop and you: A course in Lean Manufacturing

Personal Workshop is the soul of this deck. I don't have to tell you how good it is, but I would like to go into some of its more obscure uses. Did you know that PW can be your second Plascrete Carapace? Did you know that you can use PW vertically or horizontally? How would you protect your PW from sudden tags?

Obviously, the main benefit of PW is that it allows you to pay for cards mid-run. This allows you to empty your wallet before hitting an Ice, and to spend recurring credits from Net Celebrity and Stimhack on expensive hardware and programs. Also, it generates econ on its own by essentially giving you 1 credit at the start of each turn, and finally it has a great synergy with Order of Sol by allowing you to go down to 0 on the Corp turn consistently.

Knowing all this, the straightforward way to use PW is to load it with an expensive enough program or piece of hardware that will soak enough money until your next turn. Playing like this is fine, but sometimes you might want to use the workshop a bit differently, by having multiple things at 1 credit, ready to go at any moment. This "horizontal play" is very helpful in some scenarios, and I personally like to set it up that way, specially against some archetypes. Here are some reasons why:

  • Programs in PW don't take up MU. This means you can store any silver bullets and have them ready to go at any moment without hurting your current board state. Storing Atmans delays the choice of counters, which is always good. Parasites at 1 can be dropped at the end of the Corp's turn, which makes them much meaner, etc.
  • Hardware in PW which isn't immediately necessary is best kept there in case you draw into a Replicator.
  • Following the last point: With a Replicator on board or on PW, the Personal Workshop can be used as a makeshift carapace, if you're playing horizontally. Whenever you get sea-source'd or you expect incoming damage, grab the first paid ability window and drop all the hardware at once. This will flood your hand with replicated pieces and protect you from the kill (make sure to end the turn with enough money to do this when playing against Weyland, you want to protect both yourself and your PW from trashing).

If you choose to play your PW horizontally, please be careful about tags. You should keep enough money to quickly evacuate all the important cards from the PW in response to a Sea Source or Breaking News, so all your eggs aren't caught in the same basket. Don't worry about Elizabeth Mills, due to the timing structure of the Corp's turn, even if they rez it you still have an ability window to evacuate the PW before it's nuked from orbit. The only way you can get caught with your pants off is by ending the turn completely broke.

Some words on Replicator that don't really deserve their own section: Replicator is a great card to have, on PW or on the board, and as early as possible. It might not look like it but Replicator is a draw engine. Conditional, yes, but extremely powerful. Almost all of your hardware stacks (with the exception of Toolbox) so you will want to be drawing those multiples and thinning your deck. Try to keep hardware that you don't need "just yet" (like Clone Chips) in the PW until you get that Replicator on the table.

Early game: Kickstarting the Engine

Your approach to the early game will depend on multiple factors, including your hand (duh) and your enemy corp. You want to run early, but to do so you need to make sure of two things: 1. You will be able to empty your money somehow before hitting ice in an efficient manner. 2. You won't take excessive damage or lose programs.

Against decks that don't typically go for damage I may feel comfortable doing R&D interface - Datasucker - Run R&D - Draw, but of course I wouldn't ever do that against jinteki. SMC-Run is a good play in almost every single scenario, so you shouldn't be afraid to do that. Even R&D interface - SMC - Run works well. I must insist about being careful with damage. Early Nasir suffers a lot from losing cards; its engine is made of multiple pieces with little redundancy, and you can't use Clone Chips willy-nilly to pay for mistakes.

Obviously, if your starting hand includes Personal Workshop, you want it out ASAP to be efficient from the get go. Similarly, Order of Sol should hit the table the first time you are at 2 credits. Playing these key pieces of drip econ early on does a lot for your late game power.

If you are playing against NEARPAD, RP or other asset econ decks, you may want to make an exception from the "SMC is a shield" rule and fetch Paricia as early as possible. It will pay off, believe me. Just don't crack SMC for a Datasucker. Suckers are very important indeed but they will come at their own time and don't deserve wasting a SMC, at least not this early.

Remember: Corp ice is your econ. Don't fear hitting big ice (your SMC will save you), and don't be too concerned with small ice either (if you've played the way I said, Pop-up windows and quandaries will just be a minor annoyance). Keep constant pressure on the corp, build your engine through their own money and you will proceed into an advantageous mid game.

Mid game: Staying Strong

At this point you should have at least some of the pieces of the Nasir engine. It isn't always possible to draw these Workshops, but with creative SMC and Clone Chip uses, it's possible to exploit ice efficiently anyway. While you fish for the remaining parts of the holy trifecta (PW, OOS, Replicator), you probably found time to set up an atman at 0 (which you almost always want) and a couple suckers. This is when Corp economy is at its best relative to you and they will try to execute their plan.

Thanks to your accesses and knowledge of the meta, you should have a general idea of what that plan is. Here's how you respond to some of the most typical strategies:

  • Glacier decks that look for scoring windows: You will do well against those. Here's where Stimhack comes to life. Keep close to broke at all times, and watch as they IAA in a remote they don't expect you to break in a million years. That's your moment to run blind on the front ice (to get money), bounce off it, and then re-enter with stimhack, summoning atmans, parasites and whatnot. Just beware of traps, but the surprise factor of Stimhack makes it hard for people to justify IAA on a Junebug when you're broke. If they do drip econ, don't drop your Paricia pressure.
  • Meat damage flatline decks: Your main problem against those is that there's no way in the world you're going to avoid getting Sea Source'd. If by the mid-game you haven't got your Plascrete yet, don't run, and focus on improving your board state. Remember you can put together a "makeshift plascrete" thanks to replicator and ready-to-go hardware in the PW. Many Weyland players don't think of this and will waste their sea sources, so exploit that. Even if you have OOS on the table, start ending your turns with enough money to protect your Personal Workshop.
  • Fast Advance: Multiaccess the hell out of these. SMC a nerve agent, replicate R&D interfaces, and keep them on R&D lock.

Late game: Recurring Efficiency

By now, it's unlikely you will depend on Ice for your economy anymore. You should have a significant rig, preferably with Toolbox out and a good distribution of Atmans (I like 0-2-4 or 0-4-6 depending on the deck), with at the very least one Datasucker. These should be backed up by at least 4 sources of recurring credits (2 Cyberfeeders and a toolbox, for example), and you should be protected against whatever means the Corp wants to flatline you (plascrete, net shield, an accessible Deus Ex).

You have a good late game, because a well developed Nasir is hard to stop. Here's where you will be thankful for making intelligent use of these clone chips, because they will help fixing any gaps on your board (accidents happen). Keep constant pressure, remember to stay protected, and go for these last points!

Silver Bullets: Hunting the Corporate Werewolves

The deck runs a suite of five silver bullets to deal with some of the most relevant archetypes, and of course these five slots should remain meta-specific. If you think one of these cards is dead in your environment feel free to change it to a third Replicator, Net Celebrity or Order of Sol, which are always helpful, or to include a different piece.

  • Inti: It's here mostly to deal with Wraparound, and will remain as long as NEH stays relevant. It also works well against what I believe will be good archetypes soon (Grail ice suites, NEXT ice), and deals with unadvanced Ice Walls. While not the most efficient, its strength pumping ability combines well with Nasir, since you can choose to dump pre-encounter credits on it. In any case, datasuckers can help bridge the gap. It will be invaluable against Grail suites in the future, because it completes the trifecta Inti - Sharpshooter - Deus X against Galahad - Lancelot - Merlin, preventing all of their cross-effects.
  • Deus X: Not sure if I should call it a silver bullet, because it's pretty much central to the strategy. Its presence in the deck almost justifies early aggression. it can also help you when you absolutely need to hit Jinteki advanced remotes. Remember that you can break Heimdall II with this, it's easy to forget!
  • Sharpshooter: Ditto to Deus X. It protects against a different set of calamities.
  • Net Shield: Makes all flavors of Jinteki (PE in particular) a breeze to deal with. Super comfortable to have.
  • Paricia: Direct counter to drip econ. Yes, it isn't as good as Scrubber, but it's in faction and tutorable. It won't help you kill SanSans, but will deal with PAD campaigns, Adonis, Eves, Sundews and Mental health Clinics beautifully. Worth tutoring early if you think you will get mileage out of it.

Matchup Guide: Tools for each Job

  • Jinteki RP Glacier: This is a matchup in which you really benefit from getting two SMC's early. One for Paricia, and another to search for Deus X if necessary. You want to fight their drip econ with all your might, while trying to make the mandatory central run of the turn profitable. Even if you don't manage to get Paricia, still do your best to get rid of Sundews and MHC's. Remember to run with 3 credits against servers with upgrades; nothing sucks more than hitting an Ash and being unable to trash it.

    Try to stay ahead economically and you will outpace them, since your rig isn't easy to tax in the late game.

  • Jinteki PE net damage: At the beginning of this match you will make an unusual, yet important request: Ask your opponent to warn you after placing the second advancement token on a card, and before the third, so you can use paid abilities. This is important as many PE decks run Chronos Project and you will want to fish Deus Ex from the Heap before they get rid of it for good.

    Feel free to run early to exploit ice, but keep access (and specially multi-access) low until you have your Net Shield out (which should be a big priority). Running against PE with Net Shield and the possibility of getting a Deus Ex will make your life much simpler. Beating PE is like eating a hedgehog with your hands tied behind your back, so take as many precautions as possible. Here are some of the main ones:

    • Don't run last click (duh). If you run third click, have 2 credits left for tag removal.
    • If you access ANYTHING, have at least 2 credits to pay for potential Fetals. If you're multi accessing, you should have 4 if possible.
    • End your turns with 1 credit to pay Net Shield for Neural EMPs and agenda scores. These add up a great deal.
    • Don't touch remotes unless you get PE broke somehow. If you do, go ham on them for a turn.
  • NEH astrobiotics: You will aim for multiaccess as the game progresses, preferably R&D lock (although if you get the chance to drop a Nerve Agent it wouldn't hurt either). This matchup would benefit greatly from splashing Imp but the influence was very tight, so you'll have to do with what you have.

    A major advantage against NEH is that its ice is low strength and has little stopping power, with the exception of Tollbooth and Eli. Tollbooth amounts to a huge credit swing in your favor the first time you meet it, and you should be looking forward to parasite bomb it ASAP: it's worth it. You should carefully engineer your rig so you can mantain the lock into late game. It is unavoidable for the eventual Fast Track and/or NAPD contract sneaking through, and that's why Nerve Agent is a good tool for this match.

  • Supermodernism and variants: Plascrete soon, and preferably set up a horizontal Personal Workshop with Replicator, in case you need to flood your hand in a pinch. Keep money around to evacuate your PW and prevent the all-eggs-one-basket scenario. Remember that Archer can't be tackled with a SMC and on-encounter credits alone, so be careful with that. Keep pressure equally on all servers to slow down their economy, and remember that Snare is a thing (Deus X on the table won't hurt). The new Blue Sun variants of Supermodernism are even easier to deal with, because Nasir counters Blue Sun's ID ability very well. You will be making lots of money at their expense, specially if they decide to rez a Curtain Wall on your face.

More matchups incoming as I get more experience with the deck :).

Dropped Cards: Those that got cut and Why

Here is a list of cards that were tested and got eventually cut from the final list, together with the reason why, as they're often seen in Nasir lists and I want to justify to the best of my ability why they didn't make it.

  • Astrolabe: Aside from the lore/theme connection, I don't really see how Astrolabe benefits Nasir. It's a very matchup dependant card, and it will be dead against a good number of decks. In a list with 3xTrade In I would consider a singleton, but it doesn't make the cut in such a tight deck.
  • HQ Interface: I played with three of those for a long time, but 6 influence is very hard to justify. 1x Nerve Agent grants us the (tutorable) ability to do the same thing, while maintaining synergy with Cyberfeeder.
  • Trade-in: In very few occasions you want to sacrifice a piece of hardware (Replicator and Toolbox are the only two that might be considered for sacrifice, but that comes with its own set of problems) and even if you did, there isn't anything specific to tutor, aside from the rare shy plascrete. Not worth the slots.
  • Ice Analyzer: Another card that is often synonymous with Nasir, which I dislike. I generally want my programs to go through Personal Workshop so I can delay my choices, and IA doesn't work with that. I don't think it's worth it for SMC searches alone, but your mileage may vary.
  • Omni-drive: Many people swear by this card and I can see why. I've tested it, and it's quite good on paper, but it needs to hit the board before Atman does which makes it inconvenient very often. Cyberfeeder does the same job sans MU increase, helps you pay for viruses, and can enter the board after Atman and still be useful.
  • Quality Time: Pretty good, an I'm occasionally tempted to re-include it, but ultimately it's a bit too expensive. Diesel fits Nasir better.
  • Imp: It pains me greatly not to have a slot for this card. It would be a fantastic silver bullet, and in a meta SWAMPED with Jinteki PE and NEH Astrobiotics I might drop something like 1x Parasite 1x Stimhack to include an Imp and a replicator. Unfortunately 3 influence is a lot for the "general purpose" version of this list.
  • Finally, all forms of traditional econ (including Kati Jones): Seriously, they're not needed :). Kati Jones might be the closest to an include, but I think it's unnecessary. She's essentially a telegraphed Stimhack that saves you the brain damage, but needs to be installed, protected, and clicked four consecutive turns. It slows your game plan in matchups in which you need to be fast, and it's redundant in slow games due to all of your drip econ.

Thanks for reading

Hope this wall of text was useful for someone! I had a lot of fun writing it. If you have found me on OCTGN and saw me play horribly, excuse me, I tend to play at night when my mind isn't working (which explains the name of the deck). If you have any comments or suggestions, please drop a comment :)

92 comments
25 Oct 2014 Two_EG

Very impressed by your explanation... I can't say some wasteful words like "why not in Kate?". But still think dirty laundry is much better than parcia. Anyway like it.

25 Oct 2014 DrunkenGineer

This deck is lovely. Replicator in Nasir is something I would never have thought of, but feels so right now that you've mentioned it. Just some small fact checks:

  • Replicator actually does stack, sort of. If you have two Replicators out and install the first of three copies of a hardware, you can activate both Replicators and grab the other two copies from your deck.
  • Wotan isn't a Destroyer, so Deus X can't break it. Were you thinking of Janus?

Also, I would definitely recommend the modification with Imp to the deck. Its additional utility (sniping combo pieces from hand, popping SanSan) really makes it worth the include in Nasir.

25 Oct 2014 DrunkenGineer

Oh! Where are your Ghost Runners? They're so useful for Nasir. Or does OOS cover the same problem?

25 Oct 2014 Contrast

@DrunkenGineer Thank you for the amazing feedback! I will edit the guide because you make some great points.

About Replicator, I should clarify what I meant in the guide. It does indeed stack, I just think it doesn't stack efficiently, or in other words, that there isn't much point to actually play the second copy (you will rarely want to draw two copies of an install, and even when you do, it might not be possible if there is only one copy left in the deck).

About Wotan: I actually meant Heimdall II ! My bad! Thanks for the heads up :).

I'm going to try two versions with Imp. One will go -3 Cyberfeeder -1 Paricia +3 Omni-Drive +1 Imp, and the other -1 Parasite -1 Stimhack +1Imp +1Replicator. I will update the guide if they turn out to be significant improvements.

25 Oct 2014 Contrast

@DrunkenGineer About ghost runner, in terms of raw economy it's 3 "universal actions" (the card itself, the click, and the credit) in exchange for 3 credits, so under that dubious metric it's worse than clicking for a cred.

If we go into its benefit, it's obviously good on Nasir because it doesn't get shafted by your ID ability. However, after playing enough with the deck I think you don't run into enough situations in which you need more post-encounter credits, as most ice pays you well enough to deal with it directly. I've sometimes wished for Ghost Runner as I was learning the deck and found myself accessing Fetals on 1 credit, Ashes on 2 and other painful mistakes, but eventually these stopped happening, and I think Ghost Runner isn't required. Think of it as crutches for mistakes, I guess :).

25 Oct 2014 DrunkenGineer

@Contrast:

  • Replicator: yep.
  • Wotan: s/Destroyer/AP/ in my first comment, but we both know what I meant :)
  • Imp: my money is on the second option being better, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.
  • Ghost Runner: fair enough. Imp can be your new mistake crutch, considering Fetal doesn't fire from archives.

Also, did you ever/often find yourself running out of memory? Or is a mid-game Toolbox enough MU support?

25 Oct 2014 Contrast

@DrunkenGineer When I first started playing Natman I would drop the Atmans too soon and at bad ranges, almost in response to each new piece of ice. I would enter the midgame with and Atman at 1 and another at 2, and stupid things like that.

In those cases, I did have a lot of trouble with MU, because I couldn't support Datasuckers and new SMCs.

Now, I have realized that Atmans are a mid to late game tool, with the exception of the base Atman at 0 which can come as soon as it is comfortable. Playing that way, you don't usually run into MU problems before you can get the Toolbox.

There's the odd game in which Toolbox just won't come out and it seems like you have to maneuver in a very tight space, and these cases are what tempt me to try Omni-Drive, but so far they aren't too common.

25 Oct 2014 4dd150n

I love the prominence of Stimhack in this deck. A very under-appreciated card from what I have seen.

25 Oct 2014 DrunkenGineer

@Contrast Ah, good to know.

Also, as you play, look for scenarios where a singleton of one of the following cards would help you out, in case your deck can squeeze in another silver bullet:

  • Levy AR Lab Access (if you're decking yourself)
  • Same Old Thing (to recur Net Celeb or Stimhack)
  • Public Sympathy/Borrowed Satellite (if Stimhacks have made flatlining easier, or, for the latter, against trace-heavy decks)
25 Oct 2014 SlySquid

Wow, great deck and even better write up! I wish I could explain anything with the level of detail you can lol I'd really love to see how my deck fairs against this, it seems mean!

25 Oct 2014 Thike

Great write-up! I've been running Nasir a ton since he dropped, and have come to almost all of the same conclusions, barring a few: Imp is the greatest. SanSans, Biotics, Scorches, SEA Sources, Midseasons, this card is the best way to deal with a lot of weaknesses that just have no other great answer. I've tried without it, but immediately miss it. You can replace it with Scrubber or Paricia in some matchups, but for problem ICE and Operations, this is still king. Ghost Runner is something I'm enjoying. While I agree that most of the obvious uses can be played around, there are times when you're going to make the wrong call. More importantly though, is how it can round out numbers after a rez. I, more often than not, use it to get that last power counter on Atman, or to turn a failed run where I made a bunch of money into a successful run where I made a bunch of money. Having one out just makes things easier. I've started using a pair of Armitage Codebusting. While you don't NEED the money. Having that option, on top of Nasir's lord and savior Stimhack, as a way to speed up set up or threaten scoring remotes is solid. Femme Fatale is better in Nasir than most Shapers, and it is amazing in Shaper. Since you're running Atman, Swordsman can be a problem. Parasite is a good answer, but a lot of the strength 2 ICE I've run into are sentries, so Femme handles those. Bypassing an ICE so you don't activate your ability is rare, but a nice trick to have up your sleeve. Have one on your Workshop at

25 Oct 2014 Thike

Welp, the system ate my formatting and half of my comment.

25 Oct 2014 Thike

Formatting returned (MAYBE?):

  • Imp is the greatest. SanSans, Biotics, Scorches, SEA Sources, this card is the best way to deal with a lot of weaknesses that just have no other great answer. I've tried without it, but immediately miss it. You can replace it with Scrubber or Paricia in some matchups, but for problem ICE and Operations, this is still king.
  • Ghost Runner is something I'm enjoying. While I agree that most of the obvious uses can be played around, there are times when you're going to make the wrong call. More importantly though, is how it can round out numbers after a rez. I, more often than not, use it to get that last power counter on Atman, or to turn a failed run where I made a bunch of money into a successful run where I made a bunch of money. Having one out just makes things easier.
  • I've started using a pair of Armitage Codebusting. While you don't NEED the money. Having that option, on top of Nasir's lord and savior Stimhack, as a way to speed up set up or threaten scoring remotes is solid.
  • Femme Fatale is better in Nasir than most Shapers, and it is amazing in Shaper. Since you're running Atman, Swordsman can be a problem. Parasite is a good answer, but a lot of the strength 2 ICE I've run into are sentries, so Femme handles those. Bypassing an ICE so you don't activate your ability is rare, but a nice trick to have up your sleeve. Have one on your Workshop at
25 Oct 2014 Thike

CONTINUED: less than four counters means that you're afraid of nothing.

One thing that you didn't really touch on, that I think is the defining strength of this archetype is modularity. My first attempt at Nasir was a big-rig setup, complete with Morning Star, Torch, Femmes and Paintbrush. It was a BEAST once it was set up, but frequently stalled on the way. If you rez an Enigma to keep me out, the ability to knock three counters off of my 30-credit rig is great, but doesn't do much right now. Installing a Cyberfeeder, Atman, or Datasucker is a tangible benefit, and makes me stronger NOW. It means you don't stall out, that every attempt to keep you out just makes you stronger. It also means that once you're getting in, you can keep setting up with your free money and just stronger and stronger. The ability to make incremental, tangible improvements on your rig means that you are that much more fluid with what you draw and choose to install, and that you never stop snowballing.

(Sorry for the quad post.)

26 Oct 2014 vegetable

For me the main question is: What happens when you just don't get a workshop?

26 Oct 2014 Thike

Oh! That's what I forgot! The other important part about that modularity is the fact that, with so many of your pieces being cheap, you're not as reliant on Workshop. Feeders, Interfaces, even Atman are easy to install without PW. Stimhack + SMC gets you an Atman at 4 form zero.

26 Oct 2014 moistloaf

Why not... Napman?

26 Oct 2014 Contrast

@Thike Thanks for the great feedback! I'd love to go point by point on those ;)

  • Imp: Yes, I'm getting closer to resignation and admitting I really need Imp in the deck. However, I'm doing my best to find a way to add it without losing the second parasite. The deck is at a risk of having too many cards to tutor and not enough SMCs, and lowering the Parasites to 2 as well as adding the Imp won't help.

  • Good points about Ghost Runner! Although I often achieve the same results with a combination of Net Celebrity and the "carry over" credit from Order of Sol. I won't be adding it to my deck but I can see people enjoying it.

  • Armitage Codebusting: Thanks for this particular suggestion. It's a card that I hadn't even considered, but I think it might work well actually. Through a long game with this deck, I maybe click for credits 4 or 5 times, just to round off some numbers every now and then. Having an Armitage would make those moments more efficient. I will try it, but it will be hard to justify cutting anything :).

  • Femme: The first versions of the deck had Femme in it, but I ended up cutting her. The reason is that Femme is a fantastic card to draw, but a terrible card to tutor. Like you suggested, Femme on PW works very well, but SMC to Femme is almost impossible to pull off in most scenarios. This means you either have multiple Femmes for consistency (in which case the influence becomes too much to justify in most matchups) or you have a singleton which you never seem to draw.

Your points on modularity are a great way to explain why Nasir carries momentum through the entire game. When the deck is working, it almost feels like a train without brakes, every move you do, even if it's offensive, keeps adding to that momentum.

26 Oct 2014 Thike

Here's my current version for reference. Like I said, basically the same structure, completely independently. Your use of Replicator intrigues me, as a direction I've never considered.

netrunnerdb.com

26 Oct 2014 Pinkwarrior

I personally don't like Personal Workshop in Nasir. First off i agree its powerful with him, but you first have to get the thing. Then if you do get it and get tagged you can end up losing alot & Nasir is easily tagged.

With these point's in mind i choose to cut it in favor of running with nothing relying on Ghost Runner and Cache to fuel me if needed. It works well for me i find and puts my mind at ease not spending draws trying to find a PW for the game.

I like the deck and explanation i just feel alot of people automatically put cards in decks never trying anything new or looking at the problems tho's cards can cause.

26 Oct 2014 Thike

I'm not finding it that much of an issue in this style of build. Sure, it's noticeable when you don't get it. The same way it's noticeable in Criminal when you don't get Desperado. That doesn't mean it's not worth including. It is so incredibly powerful. When you don't get it, it's not too big an issue here. All it means is that you're unlikely to install a Toolbox anytime soon. The most expensive thing you'll install other than that is SMC -> Atman at 4, which is exactly covered by a Stimhack. Everything else is small enough that you shouldn't have any troubles.

26 Oct 2014 Zetan

What a fantastic deck.. and what an even more fantastic write-up! I tried playing with Nasir for a month or two and could never really get the formula right. I think Atman really is the way to go... I had been trying other breakers and having a lot of trouble with them. Might give this a try at some point, though I'm enjoying my stealth Chaos Theory deck a little too much right now to switch. :)

27 Oct 2014 Dydra

Great deck, good job! Was totally giving on Nassir and didn't think about the OOS on the corp's turn :)

27 Oct 2014 pruneface

I really like this build and the explanation, thank you so much for sharing! One question on matchups: how do you find this deals with tagstorm / Making news tag-taxing decks? I have found that things like manhunt or a scored restructured datapool are a nightmare, as once they hit the table it's really hard to keep the tags off. And at that point, you have no more PW / OOS, which is a key component of the deck disabled.

27 Oct 2014 Contrast

@pruneface: Thanks!

One often overlooked way to deal with those decks is The Toolbox instead. It provides 2 link, which is often a huge boon against these types of decks. Also, even though you usually stay low on money, you generate constant economy in the long run so it is possible to keep up with the tag game.

The issue, obviously, is that at any time the Corp can easily pay over the money you have and get you, In thoses cases yes, chances are you will lose the PW. In games like this I like to get the most use I can from the workshop early (stimhacking a Toolbox through, for example) and get my plascretes soon, so I can stop worrying about the PW surviving to the late game.

One advantage of Nasir against this kind of deck is that Closed Acounts is a dead card, so you only have to worry about the meat damage kill, if it's there at all.

27 Oct 2014 pruneface

@Contrast huzzah, thank you for your articulate and substantial response. Prior builds I've tried didn't use Stimhack so the workshops had to be out longer - I think that rushing some of your key tools out like that seems a strong play; I'll have to give it a try. Unniversal Connectivity Fee seems easily dealt with by letting it fire, and you have parasite + sucker for Information Overload. I guess for the few decks with psychographics you can either shrug tags if viable, or just deny them agendas by digging R&D.

27 Oct 2014 4dd150n

@Contrast Can I ask how Atman interacts with Personal Workshop? Can you just load him up with counters and pull him whenever he reaches the strength you need? I realize this is the question of an inexperienced player, but I'm having a hard time understanding how Atman would work here and there's nothing in the FAQ.

27 Oct 2014 Contrast

@Addison That would be fantastic, but I'm afraid that's not how Atman works with PW :).

The best that PW can do for your Atmans (which is very good!) is store them at 1 remaining credit, which has several advantages.

First, they're ready to be installed mid-run. This is important because you often don't know the exact amount of counters you want on your Atman until the offending ice is rezzed.

Second, they make it installing mid-run much cheaper than the SMC alternative. With SMC, you'd need to pay 5 (2 from the SMC crack + 3 from Atman itself) plus whatever you want to pay for counters. This makes it almost impossible to pay with on-encounter credits. However, with PW, you just need to pay the remaining credit, and then put counters on Atman, with money that may come from the just rezzed ice, or from your sources of recurring creds like Cyberfeeder, Toolbox and Net Celebrity (all of which can give Atman power counters).

There is few ice in the game that you won't be able to handle directly with an atman on PW at 1, even if you ran broke to begin with. For the exceptions, a cyberfeeder out or two should suffice.

27 Oct 2014 4dd150n

@ContrastThanks for all the great info. I really appreciate all the work you put into this guide. As a game, Netrunner attracted me with it's emphasis on gameplay creativity and this guide really exemplifies that.

28 Oct 2014 demonsquirrel

How does this go against Blue Sun?

28 Oct 2014 Contrast

@demonsquirrel Basically, you wreck Blue Sun unless they run Amazon Industrial Zone. If they do, the matchup becomes way harder.

If they don't run AIZ, they will either Oversight and bounce back the ice for credits (which you should try to stop if you have a Stimhack and an Atman ready), or they will Oversight and leave the ice there, in which case you patiently build up and kill it with an atman as soon as possible.

In both cases, running against BS is going to involve getting very expensive ice rezzed on your face, giving you ridiculous money, and then blue sun will have to seriously consider if it's worth it to bounce back. In my experience so far, the matchup is heavily in Nasir's favour (I've won 9 out of the 11 BS games I've played, only lost against a particularly ice-light killer deck, and against a list with AIZ).

If they run AIZ... Things are going to be a bit harder, but not unworkable. You want to get rid of AIZ ASAP, so if you see an opening to get into the server in which it's installed, go for it. AIZ only affects the server it is installed on, so feel free to hammer the other centrals and remotes and gather datasucker tokens. Datasucker is invaluable in this matchup, and I generally like to have two out.

28 Oct 2014 Pinkwarrior

@Contrast I agree Personal Workshop is a powerful card i just find it's not consistent you come up against a tagging deck and it's suddenly a dead card and you need 3 of them to have a good chance of getting it as you cannot search for it.

Personally i prefer consistently good cards in my deck so my deck performs as well all the time. You compared it to Desperado but you will still get your money out of Desperado even later on and it doesn't get blown away when tagged unlike PW.

Don't get me wrong i like the deck and the explanation and i see you minimize PW loss when playing tagging decks i just don't feel it's this holy grail that alot of people seem to think it is for Nasir.

28 Oct 2014 Contrast

@Pinkwarrior: Well, I wouldn't call it inconsistent if it only fails against tagging decks. Every card has a counter! Even hardware like Desperado with the new cards that deal with it effectively.

Also, not sure why you think it's a dead card against tagging decks :). It works just fine against single tags (SEA source, tagging ice). Just follow what is said on the guide about evacuating the PW before it gets trashed, and at worst they will trash a 1 credit investment.

Midseasons is another story, and realistically the only matchup in which you should resign yourself to losing the PW eventually. Even against those decks, it's possible to exploit PW during a significant portion of the game, more so if you have a copy of Imp in your list and delay stealing the agenda.

PW is fantastic in Nasir, and I honestly can't imagine a deck without it. However, If you don't draw it or have it denied, the deck still works well, just not as comfortably.

One last, minor point is that even if you have 20 tags on you, you can still use PW in certain ways. Play PW, host Atman, stimhack can help you power that Atman through, and if it gets trashed in the corp's turn it was just a 1 credit investment anyway.

28 Oct 2014 Pinkwarrior

@Contrast yes every card has a counter but your more likely to see tagging than hardware trash because their are different use's for tagging a runner weather it be tag n' bag or fast advance with psyco or just punishment with bad times & Closed accounts.

I suppose your right with that example PW isn't a completely dead card when tagged, you could still use it as a pay a click to install during the run or you could risk losing anything you leave on it.

As for running a deck with out it, i've had no trouble with my deck i use SMC and Clone chips to dump cash if i have any at all and generally stay poor using Cache, Ghost Runner and recurring creds to get through if needed. Sure you get more money with PW but tbh i have exactly the amount of money i need for the situation with the ICE that they res any extra money would get lost or wasted so i find theirs no need at least the way i run the deck.

29 Oct 2014 gawbo005

I have used this deck many times and WOW I love it. I have gotten a lot of victories out of it thanks to the tips you have written. I plan on taking this to worlds.

30 Oct 2014 Contrast

@gawbo005 That's fantastic to hear! Please do and report back! :D

30 Oct 2014 gawbo005

I sure will. I just want to state here for anyone else who might want to try this deck that I cannot stress enough his comment for a str 0 atman. Every now and then I have started with a str 2 or 3 but always regret it. It ruins your day when you get stopped by a quandary.

30 Oct 2014 SummonMew

I love this deck, so flexible and really a challenge to pilot but so rewarding.

31 Oct 2014 CJFM

@Contrast Thanks for the write-up! I'm going to try this variant out this week!

1 Nov 2014 CobraBubbles

Just had my first couple games with this deck on octgn. One win vs NEXT (with nasty Archers), one loss vs NEH (tagged me and trashed PW and OoS early). It's a really really fun build :D Deceptively powerful and really hard to pilot. I will certainly be sticking with it for a while. Thanks very much for the guide, it really helps although I still made quite a few mistakes.

4 Nov 2014 CJFM

I'm not sure I can 100% endorse this deck. I think it's great that you're getting some mileage out of it, and that it's working for you. But there's some serious misinformation going on here.

You DO, actually, need economy besides rezzing ICE in Nasir decks. If you think you don't, then I'm not sure how you'll ever beat NBN. Even with a solid economy, it's very difficult. That econ needs to be reliable, cheap, and bursty. Kati, Magnum, Codebusting are my three favorites. If not, players will simply bankrupt you and you'll have trouble getting back out of that hole. Codebusting is a fantastic way to get back up to speed, and it works well with OoS. OoS does not fund your economy solely by itself. I'm not sure how you'll ever score NAPD without Ghost Runner or an Imp at hand. Imp is also great to get The Future Perfect into the Archives.

I've played a dozen or so Natman builds, and this one doesn't strike me as particularly new or different. I'm rather surprised it has as many hits as it does here. Running Nerve Agent is fine if you can guarantee multiple runs per turn on HQ, but you can't, especially with recurring cred. It's hard to keep in play with max 6 MU. Wtih 2 sources of memory in the deck, you're going to be hard-pressed to actually get everything you want in play. I think the reason this deck is "hard to play" is because it's not playing mem chips (akamatsu or Cybersolutions). I'm not sure why it's not playing mem chips, to be honest. The final rig is Atman, Atman, Datasucker, Inti, Datasucker #2?, Parasite?, and the last Atman; with little draw power, you're gambling that you'll even see your Toolbox and get it into play fast enough.

That said there are some things I really like in this deck: 3x stimhack with 3x Atman, Cyberfeeders and Celebrities, 2x Order of Sol (which is the correct number), net shield. All really good inclusions.

Replicator, however, is confusing. Why not just run Quality Time? You'll find your cards faster with QT. Paricia is getting the stinkeye from me right now. It doesn't do what Nasir wants it to do (trashing San San and Ash, because it can only trash Assets, which is bad), you might as well include Ghost Runner since it does the same thing, plus helps you get through ICE.

What I've found from testing with this variant is it's too reliant on PW, memory is incredibly tight, and the only way to re-run a server you've just rezed ICE on is via Stimhack. Stimhack is great, but it's not enough. Celebrity is unreliable as NBN and HB can fast advance and just blow it up (though playing it smartly, you should get some value from it). Finally, I know you mention Femme above a few times, but realistically, it's one of your only ways to get through a server once you've been purged.

Again, it's a good build, but I think you're pulling the wool over many an eye. (For some reference, I recently went 4th place in a Seattle tourney with Nasir (parasite recursion)/NEH, and our group has regular Nasir players, one of whom 4-0'd a tourney with Nasir coming in second with his only loss as corp. Just some context, in case you're not sure whether I'm a reliable source.)

;)

4 Nov 2014 Contrast

@CJFM Thanks for the feedback! It's good to have some negative feedback too, it's what helps you improve.

That said, I take some issue with you phrasing it as "misinformation", you make it sound like I want to mislead people deliberately. I'm not the best Netrunner player, that's for sure, but everything I've written has been true to my own experience. While you may disagree, the only way to put together a great list is by having a honest discussion and not summoning our credentials, or resorting to a veiled ad hominem.

That said (and sorry if this last paragraph came a bit aggressive) I see value in most of your points so let me go one by one:

  • Regarding the need for economy, I will insist that you can do just fine with the suite I got. I will grant you that NAPDs are often out of the question, but I believe it's a reasonable price to pay. It is perfectly possible to win against NEH, and it hinges on making good use of Stimhacks. Normally, I save Stimhacks to kill two birds in one stone, generally by using half of it to either kill a SanSan or score a NAPD, and the other half to pull something heavy out of the PW. However, I admit that I have been using Codebusting lately and I'm liking it. In fact, my latest personal version of the list runs -2 Net Celebrity +2 Codebusting. Let me specify though that I think Codebusting is the ONLY "traditional" econ that works on Nasir. I could go for hours on why neither Magnum Opus nor Kati make sense in a list like this, however I must admit that Codebusting is good at patching certain holes.

  • I've been really trying to like Imp on Nasir, but I just can't. For the longest time I've thought I couldn't get the hang of it because I'm not a good player, but now I'm starting to put my finger on why I don't like it here. The reason is, with a single tutorable Imp on the deck, bringing it out is both an investment (4 with SMC) and a play that can't be on reaction (you can't tutor imp after knowing the access). This makes it extremely clunky to play, and a good NEH player will simply purge after you bring it out. Paying 4 and cracking a smc for a shot at killing a SanSan is a huge overkill, particularly when you can kill it directly for 5 (and this is where I feel that Armitage may indeed be helpful).

  • Not sure if you're trying to imply that the list isn't original. Sorry if it came out that way. I don't have any Nasir players in my meta, so my experiences with this deck are solely my own. The reason why this deck has so many likes and favs is because I took a long time to make that guide, and while it may be nothing new for an experienced player, I think it highlights some strategies that aren't obvious to anyone. I'm willing to revise it though if I see significant improvements over my original list.

Regarding MU and my final rig, Inti isn't present there unless you're facing very specific decks, and what I usually do is go through the midgame with either 2xAtman 1xDatasucker (plus a slot for silver bullets / parasites) or 1xAtman 2xDatasucker, and it works well for me. You might want to have more MU and that's an understandable modification to the list. I personally feel it works well enough as it is, but I accept the point.

Where we are going to disagree fervently is about Replicator. Replicator is the lifeblood of this deck. In fact, my latest versions are running 3 copies. It's so much better than QT in terms of tempo that I wouldn't switch them in a million years. The thing is, Replicator isn't there to search for cards, it's a tempo machine and a deck thinner. An early replicator means anywhere between 8 and 10 draws through the game, PLUS it removes the other replicator from the deck. This effect drastically improves the quality of your draws and allows you to quickly define your strategy thanks to multiples on a specific key hardware.

Also, Replicator allows you to stay at 5 cards in hand with little direct draw investment, which is great against Jinteki, and finally it allows PW pseudo-plascrete shenanigans explained in the guide.

I will give you that Paricia isn't really working as well as I'd like in the deck. I kept it around because it shines against RP glacier, but it's looking more and more likely that I will get rid of it (and I'm testing Chakana in its place, of all things).

Finally, I will adamantly refuse to play Ghost Runner unless I'm running stealth. It's horribly inefficient. I think one of the reasons why Nasir is underrepresented is because some players will flood the deck with this "crutches" that aim to circumvent Nasir's ability rather than embrace it, with results in watering down the formula.

Anyway, thanks for your analysis, and I'd like to continue this discussion and see if we both can take our Nasir to the highest! After this discussion and others I had, my deck is going to go -2 Net Celebrity -1 Paricia -1 Nerve Agent +2 Armitage Codebusting +1 Chakana +1 Parasite

4 Nov 2014 CJFM

Thanks for the reply @Contrast.

I appreciate your points. I'll give replicator another chance (the pseudo-Plascrete play does indeed seem cool), but on Ghost Runner, I've simply found it too useful to trash San Sans and to steal NAPDs that I won't play Nasir without it (and I used to play without it). And I am not sure I've just played Imp only to leave it at 2 virus counters to be purged. Usually it's on PW or I'll SMC it before I access, so if the corp wants to spend their turn to get rid of a single virus counter, I'm ok with that. The argument that 'a good corp will purge' is nonsense. They'll be purging for your Datasucker tokens, not for your Imp (unless they're combo).

You state that Codebusting is the 'only "traditional"' econ useful to Nasir, but again that's simply not true. Kati Jones is very strong; it's possible that it just doesn't fit with this deck's playstyle, not that it isn't useful or good in Nasir. You have to build your deck around it.

You write "She's essentially a telegraphed Stimhack that saves you the brain damage, but needs to be installed, protected, and clicked four consecutive turns. It slows your game plan in matchups in which you need to be fast, and it's redundant in slow games due to all of your drip econ."

Well, sort of, but what do you mean by 'telegraphed'? Is it telegraphing something important to the corp that you're going to run? Isn't that what you do, as a runner? What do you mean by 'protected'? Has this really been a problem? How, exactly, do you have to protect her?

Opus is the same way. How is clicking for two credits not good? Eventually, you'll have the ICE on RND or HQ rezzed (especially if you're running frequently), and you'll need to be able to pay your way through, traditionally. Or you'll run into a situation where your recurring credits + what you have lying around is not enough. I do think Codebusting is the most 'efficient' traditional economy method for Nasir, not the only viable one -- good to hear you made the switch. I think it's the right decision.

Chakana is a good option for Nasir if you have the space. I like to say that Nasir wins on RND and Chakana can help leverage that.

Finally, I want to comment on this 'veiled ad hominem' nonsense. I wasn't attacking your person, or your article. I'm pointing out that this guide is not a one-stop-shop for Nasir information. Highly rated decks on this site tend to read like 'these are the best decks' but that has yet to be proved.

There are some strange comments in your guide. Your 'Jinteki PE Net Damage' matchup section is simply wrong. You win against Jinteki by accessing RND, once card at a time. You need Parasites and Deus X is optional, though helpful. With a DX out, you can reliably run ANY non-advanced remote. Running HQ is an ok idea if you're playing Cambridge PE as it usually doesn't run more than 3 hand-traps (Snare!, Shock!, though most have moved over to running 3 Snare, 2 Shock). Disarming traps, one at a time, is a perfectly legitimate way to win this matchup. Make sure to lose tags and draw up before running.

You write that "If you access ANYTHING, have at least 2 credits to pay for potential Fetals. If you're multi accessing, you should have 4 if possible." But again, how do you propose to do that? You're going to hit Yagura, Pup, even maybe a Pop-up in this matchup. Some PE variants play Datamine. I don't see how you are going to get through with 2 credits without a reliable source of income. Here, Kati is fantastic. A reasonable goal for this matchup is to draw to find Parasite and then play "find the Komainu".

Also, for what it's worth, I haven't found that Nasir wrecks Blue Sun. I've found it to be very difficult to get by Archers consistently and it's difficult to keep them off cash and outpace them if they're playing OAI. Turn one OAI a Curtain Wall is not good to see.

I didn't mean to imply that the list wasn't original. The write-up is very good, on the whole, and I love it that Nasir is getting some hits. I'd like to see you return to this guide after playing against a few more archetypes. As it stands, your area seems to have some PE, RP, and Weyland, but the NEH write-up is not ever how my games against NEH go. Usually, it's to-the-wire (do I find the last agenda in HQ or RND or do they find it first with Fast Track) or I get 7-0'd because they drew and biotic'd their Astros. Of course, that's not strictly a 'Nasir problem', is it? :)

All the best, cjfm

4 Nov 2014 gawbo005

@CJFM I feel I must come to the defense of @Contrast here.

First I will tell you why this deck is getting so many views. First you are 100% correct that this deck is nothing new. There are many Nasir decks similar to this one. What is giving the views is a VERY good guide as to how to play a VERY difficult runner.

As for replicated I am going to disagree with @CJFM because PW and replicated go hand in hand. It is amazing how fast you can get the hardware you need. How many games have people played where you draw one or two clone chips with the rest being at the bottom. In the end its a card game and it is likely to happen. When I get replicater it is unusual if i don't get 3 clone chips every game.

This deck you have to change your play style from typical running because this is the first runner where it is actually possible to run completely broke and still get through to the end of a server. Here is an example. I had 1 credit and ran on a 3 deep server and they rezed pop up window. I had Oos and got through. Second ice was archer. I had sharpshooter out and with the 4 credits when he rezed I was able to break it easy. He never bothered to rez his 3rd ice because of my atmans and let me have the agenda. A remote server with no rezed ice has no scoring window with Nasir. The corp has to bait the runner to try and rez the ice.

The biggest challenge is what to do after the ice is rezed and armitage fills the role real well.

I have no issues with NAPD since the change to code busting. If I suspect a NAPD I run first click if no ice is rezed just so I can get them to rez the ice. I get as far as I can (which is usually to the end if they are trying to fake me out) and I never spend my reoccurring credits. once the ice is rezed I know what I need to get through and then I will get the credits I need from code busting and run on click 4. I am usually able to grab the agenda.

I have also moved out the net celebrity in lieu of armature code busting because Nasir runs broke very often.

I also enjoy using paricia in this deck. This is amazing to have against a meta with so many NEH decks. I have found that if I can keep trashing NEH asset econ then they need to work so much harder to open a scoring window. By the time they are getting ready I am usually digging real hard on R and D and able to grab a few agendas.

4 Nov 2014 CJFM

@gawbo005 I think your 'real' imagined situations above do not help or add to the conversation. I am very well aware of how to play Nasir, so stay your lecture. I've been playing him consistently since he arrived. From your examples, seeing as how ideal they are, I just don't see you as a credible source.

Replicator doesn't find you 'the hardware you need', it only finds you the hardware you already have. If you need more of the same hardware, then yes, I suppose it does that. Finding extra Cyberfeeders and Clone Chips seems fine. I said above that I would give it another shot.

[Also, 'once' should be 'one' in my above post in the Jinteki section.]

Anyway, the point is, this is all very old-hat. I'd like to push Nasir forward, not keep him stuck in this same rut. Is the best he can do replicator/toolbox? I'll let you answer that one.

4 Nov 2014 Contrast

@CJFM Do you have the answer to that last question?

4 Nov 2014 CJFM

@Contrast We have a few local players that like replicator to death. I am not one of them. Every time I've seen it work, and every time I've played it, I've wanted it to be another better card; I think that this deck is one of the better exhibitions for it, but I have not played it extensively to be sure. This build can get Toolbox out faster than most Nasir decks, due to the 3x Stimhack, so I think that the way you've built it is pretty smart overall. I've said that I love 3x stimhack + 3x atman: those are awesome cards working well together.

Toolbox I'm not in love with: it's just too expensive. I still play it, but I do so begrudgingly. Pushing it through Workshop is like forcing out a kidney stone. Not fun, but certainly feel better after it's over. So, I'm not terribly reluctant to say it's not the best he can do. I've been playing Desperado with Suckers and Atman - very strong. Despo with fixed breakers - not quite as strong. I've been playing Parasite Recursion with Wyrm and Toolbox - surprisingly strong and resilient.

In each of these archetypes, the same problems persist: scoring NAPD is tough (even scoring fetal is tough sometimes, but you can't just end the run and waste your time). [all of these decks are in my profile]. Trashing upgrades is tough, but doable (I usually play Imp, and only get it out for the NEH or RP matchups) - running a scavenge or test run for recursion to complement the Clone Chips. Economy has been best in my Desperado builds, but it lacks multi access on HQ (simply because influence is SO tight if you build Despo). I've seen Underworld Contacts be used effectively in Nasir. I think security testing is an underused card in Shaper, and it has been strong when I've played it. If Nasir can't punish the corp for not rezzing (this is the rationale for the criminal splashes) then the corp probably will just let you have your access and not give you money.

Anyway, I'm planning on recording and posting some video of this deck in action tomorrow. I'll probably be piloting it, unless someone else in our group wants to (and I get pulled away to play some Invasion). Maybe I'll return with a new found opinion of replicator.

4 Nov 2014 gawbo005

@CJFM ahh the internet where people can troll and insult anonymously. I did nothing to personally attack you and your opinions and even agreed with several but accuse me of making things up. Well this will be the last time I am entertaining your posts.

5 Nov 2014 CJFM

@gawbo005 Honestly, I'm not sure what your problem is. I'm not trolling you, just being honest. Trolling is making the person believe I'm sincere when I'm not, but I didn't, sincerely, believe your situation was real, just made up to come to the defense of someone - someone whose defense didn't need coming to. I'm just offering constructive criticisms: I don't believe nrbd needs to be a big circle-jerk. Anyway, shall I continue to explain what I mean? In your previous comment you gave one example where you used Order of Sol, Sharpshooter, and atman to get through a server. What was your point? You state that everything is working as intended, and some of those cards have been used for a while now in other shaper builds. Most shapers play 1 Sharpshooter, and most Nasirs play OoS. What you mention in this example was never challenged in any of my previous posts -- I'm pretty sure I mention that 2 OoS was the correct number? and that Atman with Stimhack is solid? -- so this had little bearing on the conversation. To me, it sounded made-up. If it wasn't, I apologize, but please don't give general examples. Yes, Sharpshooter gets you through Archer. Yes, OoS gets Nasir through Pop-up. That's what they do. I'm not sure why you already had Sharpshooter installed -- most runners will just leave it in the deck or on PW until the right moment, but that's not really the problem.

What would be more helpful is to discuss some actual matchups: was it Weyland or NBN? Jinteki shutdown? Did you steal a Beale? An Atlas? Was it NAPD (I'm just kidding, you wouldn't have enough after getting through the archer with Sharpshooter).

Codebusting is a good change. I already said that. I was agreeing with you.

5 Nov 2014 ricardobond

Please @CJFM I would like to see some videos of Nasir's decks in action. Record some matches and let us know when you post on youtube!

5 Nov 2014 #endgame

It's a shame that there's no alternatives to Cyberfeeder, as it's the most tempting place to look when cutting for influence. Cloak doesn't work with Replicator and will give you MU troubles, which forces in something like CyberSolutions Mem Chip. Perhaps Omni-Drive is the answer? It's not as flexible, but you can still pump fresh atmans with it and have it help some of your costs.

The big worry with Blue Sun is those giant walls that get rezzed with Oversight AI and bounced. From 5 credits, even SMC -> Inti -> Stimhack won't get you through. Perhaps it's worth trying to cram in D4v1d instead of Imp? But even then, if the corp hits the combo early, a SMC -> D4VID forced you to answer their 1-cred spend with a 5-cred spend. Not great.

5 Nov 2014 Pinkwarrior

@CJFM I totally agree with you theirs other ways to play Nasir and i feels he's capable of stronger or even just different i don't feel theirs a specific build for him with any cards that are a must have.

Id be intrested to see your Wyrm/parasite/toolbox build. I use a parasite atman build using Cache and Ghost Runner to help me score tho's NAPD's i also run Grimoire as it helps with all the virus's in the deck and its cheap. I have the same problem with HQ multi access not having the influence to spend on it.

5 Nov 2014 Pinkwarrior

@endgame I actually don't feel the big ICE bluesun has is a worrie if they bounce it you wait for the res and get the same cash which you can then use on say an atman. it would be worse if they left it their with the OAI res, Nasir also completely starts to play with their ID as sure they can bounce their ice but their just going to give you more money if they do.

5 Nov 2014 Tsgstarwars

I SO WANT TO TRY THIS DECK!!!!!

The problem is that i dont have any of the lunar cycle meaning the one peice of the deck that is literally unreplaceable (nasir) is out of bounds.

I could practice with it, but I also love street chess too much.

5 Nov 2014 Contrast

@gawbo005 I mostly agree with you, but let's cut CJFM some slack :). I think we all argue passionately because it's a field we like, but he's being respectful and taking the time to explain his points of view, which I really value. I don't think he's trolling at all.

@CJFM Thanks for your new round of comments and feedback; I'm particularly interested in talking about econ in Nasir, and I would like to devote some time to explain why I see Armitage as being drastically different from both Kati and Magnum. However, I feel I should write an entire post about that, so I will keep this message restricted to your other, non-econ related points.

First, I would like to go back a little regarding your comment on the PE matchup. I agree that my strategy is unorthodox, but I wouldn't say it's "wrong". I have a win rate of 90% against PE; it's one of my easier matchups at the moment. Having a Deus Ex out allows you great freedom with dealing with PE, but you have to choose how to use that freedom. It's perfectly valid to use it to access potentially dangerous remotes and disarm traps one by one, but I also see value in allowing you to multiaccess without fearing for your life.

I think the multiaccess route fits the strengths of Nasir better, since recurring credits point you towards a paradigm of few, powerful runs (one per turn ideally), while trap disarming makes more sense in something like Desperado criminal.

I loved your analogy on Toolbox. I often feel like that, with the additional horror of being stopped mid-dump without being given time to wipe, whenever my PW is trashed with a half-paid Toolbox in it.

However, Toolbox really is perfect for Nasir. I think every one of its three bonuses is perfect for the gameplan of this deck in particular and of the ID in general. In faction, there is no console that comes close to what Toolbox offers to Nasir.

Desperado is interesting, however I can't justify running a full suite with that influence cost. However, there is some idea I've been toying with, and it's running 1 out-of-faction console and 3xTrade-In, with the option of 2 Astrolabes to "warm the bed" before I can tutor the proper console.

I would like to hear more about your experience with Wyrm. It always seemed horribly expensive to me, but I'm getting more and more intrigued by that breaker lately. My back-of-the-napkin math tells me that it's going to be hard to make Wyrm work with on-rez credits, which means you will inevitably faceplant into a lot of stuff.

Next post I will go in detail about Econ, right now I have some Binding of Isaac: Rebirth to play. Anyway, thanks for the ongoing discussion.

5 Nov 2014 CJFM

@Contrast Good points on the PE matchup. We have a lot of PE players in my area so I've had a lot of experience as well with that matchup. Definitely agree that he has a pretty decent PE matchup in general -- I think this might be for Shaper in general?

I agree that Toolbox is the best breaker for Nasir, with the current card-pool. I wish it wasn't, or that Spinal Modem didn't hurt so much + cost influence.

Wyrm is interesting. The 4-0 wyrm build which you can read the tournament report of here is quite strong, but I've modified my version to include just 1 wyrm and 2 Femme, which has been excellent. It's a good place to start if you want to blow up some ICE, repeatedly.

@ricardobond I DO in fact have some videos of Nasir online. I think Nasir is in Ep. 7 and a new one that's uploading as I type this (should be up by noon). You can find my channel here. I usually post videos from that week's store meet-up, and I've got some tournament videos down the pipe. The channel focuses on lesser known decks (usually) and unconventional or forgotten cards. Also coming down the pipe is a segment "in focus" where we play interesting or niche cards and then talk about their viability and how to build around them.

5 Nov 2014 Pinkwarrior

@Contrast I like the idea of the trade-in's astrolabe especially if your running replicators as you can replicate a replicator to trade in for clone chips for instance and gives you the tutor for the Out of faction console.

8 Nov 2014 Contrast

@CJFM Okay, this new card from the SanSan cycle has been spoiled (DON'T READ THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILERS):

Clot

Anarch - 1 Inf

Program - Virus

Cost 1, Mem 1

The corp cannot score agendas on the same turn they are installed. Trash this program if the Corp purges virus counters.

This pretty much solves the FA matchup on its own. This deck has so many instant speed timing windows that a single Clot will dismantle FA, maybe two for good measure.

10 Nov 2014 gawbo005

Here is my worlds experience with Nasir. He did really well for me only losing once. (corp deck kept me out of top 16). I added two katies and an imp to my deck. Adding those made my deck much stronger. Katie in particular as it made things much more flexible for me to run on the MANY NAPD I saw. With Katie I had no issues with this agenda. My strategy was always let them start scoring it. If it was in R and D or HQ I usually let it go because it was usually (not always) much easier to get from a remote. Having katie with 6-9 credits makes for an easy window to get into a server to score.

Katie also helped me get my econ going after a large amount of their ice was rezed and I could no longer use his ability to generate credits.

I played with replicator in the deck as well and I still like it in there because I was able to get my rig out so much faster with it.

Overall the biggest MVPs of the day for him was katie, parasite, clone chip, and replicator.

Very few people had a Nasir deck at worlds (only 6) so I am also wondering how much people unfamiliarity with him helped me win.

10 Nov 2014 CJFM

@gawbo005 Nice job with Nasir! This is exactly what I've been saying about Kati econ. Mind sharing both your lists?

@Contrast This last week both myself and another local player put together this No Sleep Natman build and played several games with it, then talked about it afterwards (I have most of the games recorded, and will post them asap). Ryan, the other player, was using the older version with Paricia, and I made the changes you have above.

Things we discussed: We never got replicator on the table in any of our games. We both had memory problems: having two atman and a sucker and being unable to play a SMC to find a parasite is just awful. I LOVED chakana, which did work in two out out of the four games I played with Nasir. (my record for the night was 2-2, losing to Blue Sun and RP in a close match, and winning against Foundry and another Blue Sun). Codebusting was fine, as we've discussed. Ryan mentioned that Paricia was never used. I never drew into my Toolboxes in any of my games, but he did, and was doing great with it.

Also, Clot is going to wreck face in Shaper. Nice one!

10 Nov 2014 Thike

For what it's worth, I regret not picking Nasir for World's. Even against Fastro, this archetype is more consistent than Noise, who let me down.

11 Nov 2014 Contrast

@gawbo005 Wow, it's so great to hear about your experiences in Worlds!

I'm happy to see that you took a similar list to this one and had good results. I wish I could've attended Worlds myself, but unfortunately I'm in the other corner of the earth :).

I'm still not sold on Kati but I will give it another try (after my initial tests ruled her out). I will write the promised post about my views on econ in a minute, but I promise I will try different things.

@CJFM: I'm super excited to see those games! I'm glad to hear Chakana worked out for you. I've been having mixed feelings about it, but in any case the upcoming Clot is going to render it obsolete so I'm not worrying too much about that slot when it comes to stopping FA.

Paricia is indeed tricky and also a dubious spot in the list, specially now that I run Codebusting. I feel that in the matchups in which it matters it helps a lot (RP and NEARPAD mostly), but it is rarely worth the opportunity cost of tutoring something else. It's one of those cards that I love to have in my opening hand, but hate to tutor.

My only surprise from your comments is that Replicator isn't working out for you. That's really strange to hear, it's not like it's a big investment! At just 2 credits, I drop it at the first opportunity I have and it helps me out a great deal. This morning it helped me chain 3 Clone Chips and recur a parasite three times during a key run.

Anyway, onwards with my thoughts on the main econ pieces, on the next post.

11 Nov 2014 Contrast

Economy again!

So, it seems that economy is one of the key points of debate when it comes to this and other Nasir lists. I feel like the points I made about economy are too simplistic, and I would like to elaborate on why I disregard "traditional" economy, and why I've been making a big exception when it comes to Armitage Codebusting.

So, before I get into this I would like to discuss what exactly defines Nasir's economy as an ID. Sorry if this introduction is too basic, it's just meant for people who read the guide and don't have much experience with Nasir yet, I don't want to be condescending!

The main point to consider is that, in your typical Nasir game, you will gain the most money from your ID among all currently released runners.

While a well played Kate can milk from 10 to 15 credits in an average length game, It is likely that you will exceed that in the same amount of turns, specially if you're parasite bombing. Obviously this is very dependent on ice distributions, and your gains will vary a lot depending on the archetype, but I feel safe to say that, in general, Nasir generates a lot of money.

Now, if you go into the specific pieces of economy in this list, played optimally they're extremely efficient. Order of Sol can grant you up to 2 credits a turn, in exchange for an upfront investment of 1 credit (considering you gain 1 the turn it comes out). Personal Workshop amounts to 1 credit per turn on a 1 credit investment, and your Stimhacks are 9 credit boosts.

Putting all of this together you get a very potent economic engine that can set up your rig at breakneck speed without losing you tempo. However, Nasir runs into money problems. How can that be? It all comes down to the ways in which Nasir gets money and the restrictions he's subject to.

Basically, with Nasir you can barely ever justify keeping a high amount of credits. Of course, you can occasionally have credit spikes (after hitting big ice for example), but you will lose efficiency if you keep it up there for long as you can't exploit OOS, and you won't be able to run against unrezzed ice unless you have something to dump your excess money on.

This is really an unavoidable problem with Nasir: your credit won't stay high for long. This is generally fine as the deck is designed to cut all your investments into manageable chunks (through PW and SMC mostly) so money passes through you efficiently. However, at some points in the game you will want to have a bit more money for specific tasks, such as trashing an important asset/upgrade or scoring a NAPD.

This specific purpose is the only one that may call for "traditional" support econ. You may want something that can explosively bridge those gaps, the moment in which you need it. What you don't need is an additional economic engine in top of your already pretty powerful one.

So what are your choices? There are three cards that are mentioned a lot:

  • Kati Jones
  • Armitage Codebusting
  • Magnum Opus

There are also some cards that, while not being specifically mentioned in this discussion, often come up on Nasir lists so they're worth considering:

  • Sure Gamble.
  • Professional Contacts.
  • Easy Mark.

I will start with these last three.

Professional Contacts: I believe ProCo is a bad choice for Nasir as it inextricably links drawing to earning credits, and Nasir is very specific on when and how he wants to do either. When you want to bridge the aforementioned gaps ProCo will not speed you up, and when you need to draw you won't be always able to handle the extra money you earn. At a cost of 5 credits, it's a hard sell.

Sure Gamble: While Sure Gamble is definitely explosive, it doesn't fix the problem with Nasir. There are few occasions, if any, in which you will need more than 5 credits to deal with a single access. If you've already gone high enough to satisfy Sure Gamble's restriction, you either don't need 9 credits or can't handle them well.

Easy Mark: Surprisingly, I would actually even consider this one. I would drop a couple copies if it was in-faction, but unfortunately my Nasir lists are super tight in influence. It can help quickly restore funds to re-enter a SanSan or NAPD server, but it's just not a very efficient card.

Going into the three most discussed cards, here's how I feel about them:

Magnum Opus: MO isn't an economy card; it's a full-fledged economy engine. Decks that run Magnum Opus want to get it on the table soon and base their economy during the entire game on it. This is incongruous with Nasir's strategy of just-in time economy and grabbing money from several different sources. The investment required to sustain Magnum Opus is completely incompatible with this list, both the upfront cost and more importantly the memory.

Kati Jones: Okay, here we go! This is where my opinion is going to get controversial, and I expect a lot of disagreement in this point, so I'll do my best to explain every aspect of my position and why I think Kati is ultimately not worth it.

Let's go over how you can use Kati Jones, by illustrating two edge cases (neither of which are particularly realistic):

  • In one extreme, you could alternate loading and unloading Kati, for a 1.5 credit-per-action ratio. This is more efficient than credit clicking but sits under the efficiency of other tools like Armitage Codebusting.
  • In the other, you could load Kati for a long number of turns (5, for example) and unload for a big boost. This is highly efficient but unfortunately this isn't too good in Nasir, because as we established before, high sums of money are actually a hindrance as you need to have, at all times, a way to spend it all mid-run. Also, Nasir is susceptible to tagging, and while a well-played PW isn't really at great danger of trashing, Kati Jones is, specially considering the mere fact of playing Kati requires you to have your PW loaded with expensive stuff.

Of these two choices, the first doesn't make much sense, and the second is dangerous and hard to manage. It's obvious that the correct balance point sits somewhere in between (maybe two or three loads per unload) and depends on the matchup. In fact, my experience with Kati on Nasir is that it's best to load her twice and leave her there. While it may seem inefficient to skip Kati activations, it keeps you ready to explode at 1 click, solving the problem that I'm going to introduce now.

So, the biggest problem I see with Kati is that she is in clear view for the Corp. This might seem obvious, but I think all of us make the mistake of thinking of kati in a vacuum. We think "Kati can give me a credit boost to solve a NAPD in a remote at any moment". Unfortunately a good Corp is well aware of that and will exploit Kati unloads. For example, a good NBN player will wait until you unload Kati and play NAPD behind Pop-Up window. The next turn you will have a double problem because you'll have to clear whichever sum you got from Kati, and figure out a way to obtain enough to get the NAPD. At that point, only Stimhack or Imp can help you.

Kati is susceptible to several forms of exploitation by good corps. While PW might suggest otherwise, Nasir really needs to keep his reliance on resources low, because of how easily he can be traced and tagged. Kati is contrary to this idea, which makes high Kati loads dangerous. Let me go back to a point I glossed over before: If you want to do high loads on Kati, you almost invariably want high loads on your PW. These two things go hand in hand with one another: you need a crapton of hardware in your PW to find a use for the huge credit boost. This WILL be exploited by a corp that can tag you, and you can easily lose a game by losing both Kati and PW at once. The only way around this is to refrain from running while in a vulnerable position, which again goes contrary to the strategy of this list.

All of this said, I appreciate Kati as a raw source of economy in most decks and I see where people are coming from when putting her on Nasir, but after extensive testing I personally decided against her. She puts me in awkward spots against good players.

Armitage Codebusting: And now I get to the one and only card that made the cut for me! I'm currently playing with 2 of these in my Nasir list and I have been getting good results.

The reason why I think Armitage excels in Nasir becomes clear when you compare it to Magnum Opus. Armitage is every bit as efficient as Magnum Opus, but at a fraction of the cost and without the huge memory problem. The problem with Armitage Codebusting, of course, is that it's deliberately designed NOT to be a standalone economic engine. By being limited in uses, it needs to be combined with other forms of econ.

This falls squarely into the needs of this list, which already generates a lot of money from other sources. You only need Armitage to round your funds up for particular purposes, which means a single Armitage will last you almost for the entire game, or at least until you draw the second. While it isn't as explosive as Kati, it doesn't suffer from the corp exploitation issues we discussed with her (there is no way for the Corp to set up their remote when your econ is in "downtime", and trashing Armitage is at worst a 1 credit swing in your favor).

If you leave the theory and think of the practical situations in which you might need Armitage, you can see that it's pretty good at solving most problems. I tend to run at first click when I can, so if you happen to access a NAPD, there's time to double-click Armitage and run again (paying to break with recurring creds). Sure, Kati might have gotten you to the same spot in only one click, but you'll have to be careful not to overshoot, and if a Pop-up rez gets you back to 0, you won't be able to go back in either case.

So to conclude: If I were to add "traditional" econ to nasir, I would be looking at Easy Mark or Armitage Codebusting, and realistically speaking Armitage is the only card that makes the cut for me. I can see the point on adding Kati, but I insist that there are some non-obvious problems with her that come up in high level play, against people who know exactly how Nasir economy works. Magnum Opus, Sure Gamble and ProCo are totally out of the question.

11 Nov 2014 CJFM

@Contrast On replicator, I can see it being fine if you get it early, but it's just not worth playing if you draw it mid-late game. Nasir suffers from "click compression syndrome" (patent pending) in which he wants to do more than he can realistically do with his given clicks. That is, he wants to run that remote, click for some money, and run again to score that agenda. If you add Kati Jones, it gets easier (one click per turn versus a potential many). [I want to comment on the economy discussion in a later post, as I can explain the benefits of running Armitage over Kati and the benefits of running Kati over Magnum, etc, etc]

Replicator is just a 'do nothing' card. It doesn't win you the game. It just helps you sometimes 'not lose'. I realize that you might be getting some mileage from it, but when I draw it, I don't want to invest the click to either put it on PW (there are better things to put on PW, in almost every situation) or the click + 2 cred to play it outright (similarly, there is always something you'd rather play than replicator). If you're playing replicator instead of a breaker, you're getting behind. If you're hosting it instead of running, you're getting behind. If you're doing anything with replicator, you're effectively getting behind.

It has some interesting interactions with PW. I like that you can flash out a hardware to get cards to not die from scorched (very cool). I like that you can find your Clone Chips and Cyberfeeders (also very cool), but when playing this deck I never had the problem finding them anyway. What was more problematic was the fact that I didn't have a steady stream of memory chips to keep my rig building up.

A few posts ago, I mentioned that I played a Parasite/Wyrm recursion deck with only two Toolboxes and that it worked. The reason for that is that you're always cycling in and out your parasites (very often) and that you're more than likely killing ICE and not installing a final rig. The final rig is something like - Atman, Wyrm, Inti, Datasucker (or if you have Toolbox out it's Atman, Wyrm, Inti, Femme, Datasucker, Femme, Zu13 Keymaster, and whatever else you have).

The reason that only two source of memory is problematic in this deck is because this particular deck (No Sleep Natman) relies more heavily on hitting 2x Atman and 1x Datasucker than that deck does. You NEED to hit Datasucker and 2 Atman to get your rig mostly there. That means that after you assemble those three pieces, you effectively NEED to hit Toolbox and get it out OR you need to draw into your Parasites/other Atman manually. By assembling part of your rig you lock yourself out of being able to get the rest of your rig in a pinch, meaning SMCs for this deck are more effective early game and basically throwaways late game.

Out of the four games with it I played (granted, this is still a small sample size), I was locked out of memory for two of them, as I wanted to draw my Toolbox, but they were near the bottom of the deck. That happens, it's a luck-based game. But the goal is to make the deck less dependent on that luck, when within your power.

I would either cut the Replicators for Akamatsus, making the deck would play more smoothly, OR I'd go up to 3 replicators. 2 seems like you're hedging your bets, and it's best to draw it early

Also, I misspoke in an earlier post - Ryan got Replicator on the table a few times (but I only recently rewatched the matches where he was on camera). Hopefully they're useful as a discussion point as to the viability of replicator.

11 Nov 2014 Contrast

@CJFM I will get back to your points on Replicator soon, but just a random idea: How do you feel about a couple trade-ins in the deck? These would maybe reduce variance and let you hit either Plascrete or Toolbox when they are essential.

I played Trade-In a while ago and I dropped it because I didn't feel I had too much specialized hardware to tutor. But if more people consider memory a problem, I might consider to test Trade-In, because I refuse to add MU hardware with the sole exception of perhaps Omni-Drive (simply because once Toolbox hits, it fixes your MU problem for the entire game, so having slots dedicated to MU feels wasteful).

11 Nov 2014 CJFM

@Contrast et al.

On the economy front I've tried everything in Nasir.

Sure Gamble is awful in Nasir. This was apparent after playing one game with him when he first came out. The only time you can reliably use it is turn one.

Easy Mark is a great choice, if you can spare the influence. I'm completely in agreement on this card for Nasir. It's very good in general, but Nasir in particular loves that it nets him cred for free. The second Nasir deck I made, after the abysmal Sure Gamble one, used Easy Mark and nothing but near-free economy: Akamatsu, Sec Testing, etc. However, there's a bit of a disconnect with free economy cards when you're playing Order of Sol, which wants your pool to bottom out once to get value. I'd say that what Nasir wants more than anything else in economy is a card that costs 1 (re: Armitage) and gets him to about 4 credits (the cost of RDI) fast.

Magnum Opus Is a great card. I don't quite agree with your sentiment that it's contrary to Nasir's philosophy.

You write that, "MO isn't an economy card; it's a full-fledged economy engine. Decks that run Magnum Opus want to get it on the table soon and base their economy during the entire game on it. This is incongruous with Nasir's strategy of just-in time economy and grabbing money from several different sources. The investment required to sustain Magnum Opus is completely incompatible with this list, both the upfront cost and more importantly the memory."

I agree and disagree. It's certainly difficult to get Magnum running in this list but that doesn't mean you couldn't build a list that ran Magnum effectively with Nasir - Kate decks did that early on, with good success. Magnum is, as you say, a Codebusting without the time-limit. I agree partly that Codebusting "falls squarely into the needs of this list," but not that the list "already generates a lot of money from other sources." You clearly mean "Nasir's static ability" by the phrase "other sources". If that's the case, then all Nasir builds would only need 2 economy cards + workshop, but that's just not true. Recurring credits are not "generating money". Nasir is still just as poor with those recurring credits. In any case, I would not use Magnum for this build, but it's still a possible engine for Nasir.

This is a poor-Nasir build, at its heart.

Kati

"She puts me in awkward spots against good players."

I'm not buying it. You must have nothing but tag-punishment players in your area. If they want to blow up your Kati Jones, at least they're not blowing up your PW, which is more important. In previous builds I've ended up with 3x Armitage, 2x Kati, 2x Order of Sol, 3x Workshop, and that's been stellar for me. This might be arguably too much economy, but I've never been poor with it. Chaining Armitages is the best feeling with Nasir, since you can also play it off 1 cred (which you're frequently at) and get value with OoS. The only reason I'd consider dropping Kati is because of that "click compression syndrome" I mentioned earlier. Using Kati is an investment, but Nasir wants to burst with Armitage. She's also very good against NBN. You never, ever take Kati money before running into an unrezzed remote with Nasir. You get them to stop you with a pop-up, take from kati, run back through. Otherwise you're just stealing the agenda anyway. There are always going to be times when you will not be able to take NAPD behind a Pop-Up. Really, that's true of all runners not just Nasir.

I really hate playing Professional Contacts in Nasir. I've tried it (Oh, how I've tried)! The only time it's "good" is when you get it turn one, click one. After that, it's basically a dead card in Nasir because getting to 5 Credits (especially in this build) is not easy. You don't want to, for instance, use Armitage to get this on the table, that's durdling with your money. The way I see it, the argument against this card is the same as your argument against Sure Gamble (which I heartily agree with). However, I don't agree with your argument that the reason you don't want this card in Nasir is because he wants to draw and gain credits separately. I don't buy that at all. He wants cred, he wants to draw to load up PW. It works perfectly with Nasir. The reason you don't want it is because you'll only play it about 15% of the time. And if you manage to play it later in the game, you've taken a huge economy hit to do so.

I'd say that if you're playing ProCo in Nasir, you need a card that does the opposite of it: I'd consider ProCo with Kati, but not with Armitage.

I'd consider, while we're brainstorming economy, Magnum alone with Test-Runs, but I probably would avoid this one if possible (too prohibitive).

I love Armitage + OoS + Kati, and I like Armitage and OoS without Kati. If you're playing a Nasir deck that uses recurring cred, then you can probably cut Kati, since she is meant to give you burst credits to re-run a server (which you don't need to often do with recurring cred).

If you're playing Kati, I'd suggest not playing recurring cred, and forking over the influence for Desperado and constructing a deck around that. I know influence is tough, but running with a not-broke Nasir is SO satisfying (I play OoS and Dirty Laundry in this build).

Anyway, just some thoughts from experience. Hope that gets everyone thinking about brewing with Nasir and maybe taking up some of these ideas in argument. I'm always up for a Nasir debate ;)

11 Nov 2014 CJFM

@Contrast I haven't had much experience with Trade-In, so I can't really comment on it in decks. Maybe someone else here can speak to its effectiveness?

What I'd theorize is that you'd have to construct the deck a bit differently, maybe play the 3rd Replicator and cut the 2nd Toolbox? That would give you more consistency early on and you can more reliably hit Toolbox when you need it?

The question is what to cut for Trade-In. I'm not sure right now. I think it's possible, but the deck might become more unstable to play a card that wants to make it more stable.

Oh, and I just remembered one thing about the replicator debate that Ryan mentioned in our games. He said that he felt that he wasn't playing enough hardware to get value from it, if that makes sense. I think he was hoping to grab more stuff with it, likely because his often got hardware out before needing the replicator. (another reason I don't like it is that it's "order dependent", you want to draw it before your other hardware to get value, same argument against Omni-Drive, unless you're playing Scavenges).

11 Nov 2014 Contrast

@CJFM I'm brewing something super janky in my mind right now, that from the list in this post would go like -1 Toolbox, -1 Paricia, -1 R&D, -2 Net Celeb, then +2 Astrolabe, +2 Trade-In, +1 Replicator. Astrolabes for the early game MU boost and card draw until the Toolbox cavalry arrives (possibly through Trade-In on the Astrolabe itself, although you'd need to get creative with your SMCs to make this work). This might be crazy stupid though, I haven't really seen multi-console work, but I might give it a try!

11 Nov 2014 CJFM

@Contrast definitely worth a try! I like Astrolabe. But the main problem is that you can lose your programs if you Trade-In your Astrolabe for a Toolbox without extra mem in play. Tricky...

11 Nov 2014 Contrast

@CJFM Yup, but since most of the MU problems come from temporary programs... 4 MU is enough for the base rig of 2xAtman 2xDatasucker. Astrolabe should let you occasionally peak at 5 for SMC's and parasites, and you just need to time it right to do the trade-in.

We might be onto something here.

12 Nov 2014 DrunkenGineer

@Contrast @CJFM have either of you considered the soon-to-be-released Lady over Inti in this deck to deny Blue Sun their oversighted Curtain Walls? Its addition makes a case for Scavenge (which strengthens the Imp play) and has the interesting benefit of letting Atman0 waltz through Wraparounds even when empty.

12 Nov 2014 Contrast

@DrunkenGineer I have kind of considered it, and it would require 11 credits to break a CW, against Atman's 16, so it is indeed better in that regard. However, inti was there for fast response against Wraparound, and the 4 cost on Lady makes it super hard to tutor mid-run, Not sure I'm seeing it! with a SMC it seems very unlikely that you will be able to tutor Lady when it's relevant.

13 Nov 2014 CJFM

@DrunkenGineer and @Contrast I actually swapped it out for Inti yesterday and I broke a OAI'd curtain wall for 7 + the cost to pull it off PW. I think the swap from Inti to Lady is simply an upgrade for Nasir. It's a fantastic breaker.

13 Nov 2014 Thike

I'd worry about NEXT Silver without Inti. That and Wraparound were the biggest reasons I use it.

13 Nov 2014 CJFM

@Thike Well, with Atman at 0, it's only 1 sucker and some cred to get through. You can also parasite it if there are too many on the board. It's a good point, though.

13 Nov 2014 cspieker

An easy play versus Nasir is to put an NAPD out behind an unrezzed piece of ICE, preferably a cheap piece of ICE. If Nasir runs with less than 4 credits, you just don't rez the ICE. If he has 4 credits, then you rez the ICE and he no longer has 4 credits. This is (one of the reasons) why Ghost Runner is so valuable. Replace NAPD with Fetal AI and 4 credits with 2 credits and repeat, or SanSan and 5.

14 Nov 2014 Thike

@CJFM in the NEXT matchup I'd rather Parasite the Bronzes, as those can be a bigger pain to get through. You can't Parasite everything, unfortunately. :/

14 Nov 2014 Contrast

@cspieker Well, there are some ways around that issue :).

My latest versions use Armitage Codebusting. I always run remotes click one if I can, which means that I can counter that play with two clicks on Armitage and a re-run.

Also, there's Stimhack. You can easily re-enter with Stimhack and use the excess credits for something else (PW payments, SMC, clone chip...).

I see the argument for Ghost Runner, but there are other ways to do it that I believe are more efficient.

14 Nov 2014 CJFM

@Contrast That sounds convincing, but let's look at the reality of the situation.

---Situation 1-- [Ideal] Corp has NAPD at 1 advancement behind a Wraparound (unrezzed). You, as Nasir, have Codebusting with full cred, an Inti out, and an SMC (no stimhack). This is an ideal situation for you. Let's say we start the turn at 4 cred. Run that remote (1). Corp rezzes and this probably happens. You can parasite the wraparound on approach, then hit the NAPD, click for 4 (2) (3) and then run back through to steal it. (4) (yay!)

----situation 2--- [probably realistic but still lucky] You have Codebusting, SMC, 4 credits but no Inti (and no stimhack, maybe an Atman at 0 or 4... doesn't matter). Run the remote (1). Corp is going to rez, so you can do one thing: get inti for 2 and use cred to help something on workshop (which for this situation's purposes is not relevant to this situation), go to 2 cred, break with Inti, see the NAPD. Click for two cred twice (2) (3), then run again (4) and steal NAPD.

---situation 3 -- [more than likely how it happens] - Same situation as in "2" except you have no Codebusting (there are, after all, only 2 in your new version). You run the remote (1), hit wraparound and get inti, break through and see NAPD, weep, then try to find a way to steal it by clicking (2) (3) (4). You don't, it gets scored. You're not too sad about this because it's NAPD, but it still sucks.

Stimhacking is a way in, but at the cost of brain damage for an NAPD, I'm not sure you get ahead. The corp will not install NAPD behind a wraparound or Pop-Up if you have a way to get in (unless they just want to tax the crap out of you, which they sometimes do, putting you further behind). You want to be using your stimhacks to get out Toolbox and Atman, not stealing NAPDs.

14 Nov 2014 CJFM

Sorry, didn't mean to sound condescending. Early morning sentence making is hard.

17 Nov 2014 CJFM

Also, first "Nasir in Focus" video, featuring this deck archetype, should be going up Monday 11/17.

18 Nov 2014 CJFM

@Contrast @DrunkenGineer @Pinkwarrioret al. The first video of our focus on No Sleep Natman is live here. We start with the basic deck posted here and will try out different variants over the next month or so. Enjoy!

5 Feb 2015 eggspert

@Contrast Which cards do you switch out for Armitage?

13 Apr 2015 NerdimusPrime

@eggspert The switch I read earlier in the post was -2 Net Celebrity, +2 Armitage Codebusting.

20 May 2015 knives369

Okay, this is my first post on Netdb, so be gentle. I just have one question as I'm about to test a combination of this behemoth of a comments section:

Am I missing something or is Rook the best card for this ever? (Influence problems not withstanding)

20 May 2015 knives369

Rook Sorry.

20 May 2015 NerdimusPrime

Nice catch! Rook definitely works well with Nasir's ability. It costs the corp more to rez a piece of ice, and gives you +2 if they do, potentially making the rez/no-rez decision trickier. A 4 shift is nothing to sneeze at.

This would be a huge advantage against glacier decks, although the corp could just install a new piece of ice and trash the one hosting Rook. That's what Clone Chips are for, I guess.

I don't know what slots and influence you could free up in this deck to add Rook and still keep it viable, but it's worth experimenting with.

20 May 2015 knives369

Thanks @NerdimusPrime. I've been stalking this thread for a while most and essentially I would free it up with a combination of cards that move it towards a more variable econ with Underworld Contact and The Helpful AI as a legitimate answer way to have enough link to be useful against most things (save for Midseason Replacements) and provide the recurring credit. I'll upload the full version once I've tested it all, but I'm a new player (at least to this version, as I played the original a lot as kid) and so I don't own a lot of the necessary cards.

``@CJFM` your video series on this was extremely informative. Kudos.

@Contrast Thanks for the inspiration to make Nasir Meidan: Cyber Explorer understandable for a chronic over thinker.

20 May 2015 CJFM

@knives369 Thanks! I appreciate that! I'm going to return to Nasir after Regionals season is done. :)

21 May 2015 NerdimusPrime

@knives369 I'm also relatively new and still building up my collection. I'd love to try this deck but I'm three packs away from having all the necessary cards.

25 Aug 2015 Ian517

Hello, i love this deck and played it many times swapping cards based on my meta. I am posting you mostly to hint you the add of two new great cards recently added to netrunner. I wonder if you have tried them, or even have some opinion on them. _1. Multithreader (Finally a way to bypass the SMC cost) _2. Drug Dealer (I wish we had a draw engine, i use 1 Symetrical Visage and imp instead of 1 stimhack and parasite, i think that if u have 0 money Drug dealer has no downside) CU, keep up the awsome work :)

2 Nov 2015 yarsiemanym

I would recommend 2x Film Critic as another silver bullet specifically for NAPD Contract but also for Fetal AI, Utopia Fragment, Red Herrings, etc. Very little feels worse than running though a newly rezzed Quandary, losing all of your credits and not being able to pay for NAPD Contract.