Argus Security, Flatline Guaranteed. Athens St. Champ Winner

Letsaros 2273

This deck went 6-1 total in a recent Store champion with 23 players total i took place. 4-1 in 5 rounds of Swiss and 2-0 in Top4 (with 4 of them a Flatline victory) that day.

I liked the idea of Argus with meat damage taxing instead of the usual bursting since the day i saw the card. As the number of runners who don't leave home with a gazilion Plascrete Carapace and I've Had Worse the fear of comboing someone, who dares to not die after you just burned his house, car and local donut shop, is great.

The deck went through many changes since i didn't know about netrunnerdb and other online communities (was pretty new to the game) to be able to use them so i could learn from other people's mistakes i went the traditional way and did these mistakes myself before i ended up with this deck in it's final form.

Good thing about this deck is that it's flexible enough to play either with many remotes or with a semi glacier formation. This helps you adapt when you face different runners in a tournament.

IMPORTANT EDIT

This deck packs a tight economy and when i mean tight i mean Jon Bon Jovi track suits tight! With enough games under your belt with this deck you will learn when to pay for something and when not to. That means even vs economy destruction Runners this deck will win. This deck can take you to late game when the Runner deck is about to end and prevail. (In case of Levy go hug your Chronos and it will hug you back) It can be taken to the ropes and still win. Until you master managing it's economy though you will lose some games. Be warned. It doesn't play (nor pay) itself.

Cards i used and didn't like/were not what i wanted:

Posted Bounty

3/1 that only works on score wasn't what i needed for the "suprise puttamandre" way this deck works. To be able to score+double Scorched Earth means it needs to be on the table with two tokens the moment you have the scorches in hand and the runner doesnt' have 2x plascrete in play. Good runners tend to play safe around tags anyway.

Caduceus

An ICE that gets stomped in the face by an angry Mimic and that fact that most runners have an angry Mimic is reason enough not to play this card for me. At least in my meta.

Housekeeping

Runners can draw aggressively and this hurts them less. Also i hate helping anarchs and shapers get their stuff back with retrieval runs and clone chips easier. Most important is that sometimes you need to feed the Runner 1-2 agenda points. This makes housekeeping (normally an awesome card) not cut for what i want from this deck.

Cerebral Overwriter

The influence are really tight. Never go bellow 3 Data Raven , 3 Jackson Howard and 3 Snare! imo. No matter how cool the card-that-does-this-cool-thingy is.

Vulcan Coverup

It's tasty, it has attitude. It's annoying. The thing is good runners never keep only 2 cards in grip against you so it's not a kill threat while False Lead is. Also you need these Chronos Project. there's no room for Vulcan Coverup.

Fire Wall

Wow much expensive, so dies to D4vid when you need it not to, such uselessness (in this deck i mean) much 'i never have time and creds to advance it'.

Wormhole

Pretty much same reasons like Fire Wall with the addition that it needs 3 advances and to be able to do something good you need a rezzed Archer else it's just ETR.

Orion

I was a fool. No. Orion is bad for you. Archer loves you. It gives you stuff. Go back to him.

Taurus

Dies to D4vid and Eater. You don't get to do that precious trace as much as before.

Shell Corporation

Talked a lot about it with a friend of mine who is many times Store Champion in my community. Shell Corp is slow. It keeps you back. You don't like being kept back. You are Weyland. Act like it.

Cards i use but would change in a heartbeat if i could find somethiing more useful

Checkpoint

Never works for me. Plus i don't like going above 2 bad publicity unless i really have to or i am pressured. Checkpoint is not that good if you get pressured. ETR is.

High-Risk Investment

Never scored it. Never won with it. I will throw it away probably for a second The Cleaners. Cleaners is love. Cleaners is life.

MVP's

Here i will list cards that did very good but not the usual things that make the deck work.

Changeling

Awesome replacement for Fire Wall . One less strength which makes it not that big of a deal but also makes it not get bitch-slapped on by D4vid. Only one advancement on it and it can bait that annoying Faerie so your Archer behind it can kill some shit. Also people tend to think it's a Fire Wall/ Ice Wall.

GRNDL Refinery

Won me games single handedly. Either bluff it as agenda. Make the runner pass through hell and fire to get it or trash it for 20 credits average. Both can work. You are Weyland.

------->Usual kill combos<-------

Snare+DRT bluff in 2 remotes early or at some unexpected point in the game. (sometimes with The Cleaners scored, sometimes not)

DRT+Data Ravens. Most usual Taxing that can eat through Plascrete or land a kill strike.

False Lead+Snare+Data Raven at a first-second click run. Followed by rezzing DRT and/or Scorches.

Data Raven+Enigma+False Lead for a mid game surprise kill combo in a first click run.

lots of other kill potential but more situational than the above.

-------> Important notes. <-------

Don't try to overscore an Atlas unless you got a good scoring window (in which case prefer scoring a Cleaners.) Trying to overscore an Atlas cost me my only loss in the Championship.

2x Data Ravens infront of RnD can deal with Eater+Keyhole decks.

Keep Jacksoning those Snares back inside HQ.

Don't be afraid to let the corp run Archives on 3rd click and get 3 1-pointer agendas. Having to choose between a combination of 6 meat damage and 3 tags is a pain in the ass. I didn't even mention that you could have a DRT rezzed for more harass.

All in all...

Thanks for reading. I am not a native English speaker so if you see a mistake in the text please let me know so i can edit it. Would love to hear your ideas.

55 comments
30 Mar 2015 Saan

Looks like a fun deck =) My only question is about your remotes. Do you usually try and protect DRTs to a degree, or do you throw them out naked? And how often do you play naked 1-pointers, and when?

30 Mar 2015 p3t00h

Definetely will give it a try next game night, wanna be a bad guy. One question - how do you ice your servers? Is it NEH-like or glacier (ffs?) or whatever. Your advice is appreciated,

30 Mar 2015 Letsaros

@Saan

I don't protect my DRT usually but if i do it is usually behind a cheap ICE. If they are out in the open though you need to rez them when they'll hurt. If they are behind a piece of ICE you can risk rezzing them for the harass. You can always Jackson them back in anyway.

I pretty often through open remotes. I tend to bluff a lot with it. Double snares, Agenda+snare with DRT behind an Ice Wall etc etc. People are so afraid of snare that they don't often run open remotes until i score a couple 1-pointers and then they still risk snares. Usually they only run against me at the first two clicks anyway because of the tagging fear.

30 Mar 2015 Letsaros

@p3t00h

there's no routine 'ICE-ing'. Depends on who i play against and what i expect. The only ICE position that is pretty standard is the Data Ravens on RnD and HQ and maybe one in a scoring remote. ICE-ing in this games is mindgames. You need to use your ICE so they conceal your archers. An unexpected Archer can win you games. same goes for a second Data Raven in RnD vs RnD diggers.

all in all. a good Archer pop or changeling+archer bait can give you a scoring window. Especially vs criminals who hurt most when losing their ICEbreakers.

31 Mar 2015 Myriad

Thanks for the deck!

I like the ice choices in this deck quite a bit (with the exception of Checkpoint).

I played it about three times last night and have the following thoughts.

1.) Wow does this deck do great in the long game! Even with 2/3 Bad Pub I was able to pull off swing wins against opponents who had me on the ropes, usually with double data raven. I love triple data raven in this deck. I wish I could spare some more influence, cutting it down to 2, but I likely won't. Its THAT good.

2.) Money is a huge problem for me in this deck. I am even tempted to make space for 3 gila hands JUST so I can make a double click worth something. I was clicking for credits pretty much constantly, rather than trying to score agendas or building my board state. I also cut 1 Snare for x2 Pop Up Windows and dropped Beanstalk for Paywall, which helps a lot with sideways play and at least gives you something back from security testing nonsense. Money seems like a huge problem in this deck if you want to be able to threaten scoring any agendas. Pretty much every agenda I saw I had to sigh and throw in the garbage because I was so strapped for cash!

3.) I had to put a 1 of Cyberdex in. Too much virus nonsense in my meta and even 1 of this helps quite a bit.

4.) Was very pleasantly surprised by the 13 agendas. With so many 1 pointers, you get a lot of ability triggers and the tax of clearing the tags is GREAT.

5.) I will try 1 Chronos, 2 False Leads, 2 Hostiles to allow for 3 Gila Hands. I usually can't run purely sideways, but moving to drip economy + Paywall might help... Eager to try it out.

31 Mar 2015 Letsaros

@Myriad

Thank you very much :)

For your points i gotta say these:

1)Indeed. This deck can endure. You can be losing 6-0, be on the 7909 game turn and still pull off a win. For me too 3x Data Raven is a must.

2)Money is not really a problem. It was a problem for me too when i first made the basic skeleton of the deck and was trying out economy cards. I found out after 40+ games with guys at my local store + in Jinteki net that the economy in this deck is exactly as much as needed. No more, no less. So when i actually manage to adapt my playstyle around it i had no problem and was almost never sort on money. I personally wouldn't like more ICE and as far as the -1 Snare goes...well i played more than 15 games with 2x snare. I found out that the 3rd WILL be missed. My advice would be to be patient. Learn the deck's economy and how to run it. This way you will notice that in past games you were spending money when you shouldn't.

3)Lots of viruses in my meta too, also LOADS of virus decks in Jinteki.net where i did more than 40% of my playtesting. I didn't have much of a problem with them tbh. I usually deal with them with a well placed purge, archer and 1-2 chronos at some point in the game. Ofcourse if it helps you personally who am i to argue? :)

4)Exactly. It's why you don't need to be very afraid of sometimes NOT rezing ICE. Save credits etc. Let the runner do his runs. This decks works better if the runner keeps running.

5)I can't leave home without 2x Chronos. What are you going to do if one gets stolen? Let that guy Levy his entire deck back in? I didn't mention that when i first made the deck i tried Gila Hands. (i also tried Government Contracts before i put in the High Risk Investment). they don't work much. You need most of your agendas as Archer foder. (Yes even atlas if it creates a very good scoring window) so actually investing in agendas that you want to stay there seems kinda iffy.

All in all. This decks primary win condition is flatlining. Agendas are secondary. I've won a game when i caught the runner off guard by sacrificing The Cleaners for a second archer once then False Lead for getting two remaining clicks out of the way and score a flatline. ofc that's not something you would do 99% of the cases but can and will happen.

31 Mar 2015 Myriad

Great insights. I will let you know how my tweaks turn out. I have a feeling that Paywall Implementation will be pure win.

1 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@Myriad

Yes please do. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

1 Apr 2015 ncaron

Have you tried Subliminal Messaging in this deck? I am assuming people must be afraid to run.

Also, I understand what you say about Chronos Project but god Vulcan Coverup is tempting...

1 Apr 2015 Letsaros

Haven't tried Subliminal Messaging yet. Though i don't think there's room for it. Runner tend to run. So at best it's a better version of Beanstalk Royalties (in this deck obviously.)

Vulcan Coverup was indeed tempting and that's why i tried it in the first place. It ended up not being as good as it sounded. Especially compared to Chronos and False Lead.

1 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@ncaron

forgot to tag you so you know i responded. my bad :/ (sorry for the double post peeps)

2 Apr 2015 ncaron

@Letsaros Gave this a try last night and loved it. You're right that Chronos Project is a winner in this deck... but I want to try Vulcan Coverup so much in this that I'm tempted to go to 54 cards. Additional agendas would be Vulcan Coverup and I could fit a few more econ cards. I don't think this deck would suffer that much from being slightly oversized...

Thoughts?

2 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@ncaron

Well mate you hit a good point right there. I personally think that an Argus deck that does this specific thing can't get any better when it comes to 49 card-count....

but

i too was thinking about going to 54 just to try. In case of 54 cards i'd put in some Vulcan Coverup for sure. Or some Veterans Program or a combination of the two.

as about economy cards i recommend (and would put in the 54 card version of the deck myself) Private Contracts. You need something not easily trashable that also offers money on demand.

Try it out and let me know. Any feedback is precious :)

2 Apr 2015 ncaron

@Letsaros how about Shell Corporation on a Snare! for dual duty econ/dmg-tag ? If they don't run it you win, if they do run it your Dedicated Response Team also make you win. Trashing your Shell Corporation becomes super taxing.

2 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@ncaron

I've found Snares to be more useful when they get Jacksoned back in for more uses. I wouldn't like a snare guarding a Shell Corporation. What i would like is a Shattered Remains guarding a Shell Corporation. Very situational though. In 54 cards you can't expect to have both when you need them. That's why i would vote for cards that work well on their own. Shell Corp is kinda slow imo.

2 Apr 2015 ncaron

@Letsaros yeah bottom line going up to 54 gives you 3 card slots (assuming you use 2 Vulcan Coverup to fill up the missing 2 agenda points)

Private Contracts is definitly an interesting option but the more I think about it, the more it starts to feel forced trying to add more cards just to fit it Vulcan Coverup.

Once Contract Killer is released I might review this but for now I don't think going up to 54 brings much to this deck.

2 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@ncaron

Thanks for the feedback mate :) I will try 54 for myself too though one of these days. I don't think it will work as it works with 49 but just for the sake of trying i wanna do it.

Contract Killer is <3. When he gets released i will test 3x 100%. I hope it is a good fit because i really like this card.

3 Apr 2015 zaknafean

Ya this one is pretty hard to pilot. 4 games in with it and about 50/50 win/loss. Neither a flatline win =(

Money felt low if I didn't get a GRNDL out early, and I always ended up with too much BP. NEVER was able to land a tag against my careful enemies (also by luck they never hit a snare), which made dedicated response a dead card for the most part.

Checkpoint proved oddly great, even with the BP making it easier to beat the trace, and both my victories were due in no small part to the Checkpoint deterrent.

And perhaps luck again, but I just didn't' get the ravens out, and they definitely seem necessary to make things click. Will keep trying it a bit, as its definitely a fun deck to run, I just think I run it poorly.

3 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@zaknafean

When i first made the deck and started playing the Dedicated Response Team felt weird. I didn't have knowledge of when to rez them or if it's worth. If and how to protect them. I just had a combo in mind (DRT+Snare, DRT+Data Raven and DRT when Account Siphon ) and it looked good on paper. Thing is until i learn to pilot the deck right they seemed as dead weight to me. After i played LOADS of games with the deck i learned the timing and when it's worth rezzing them and they did work every time.

My advice would be this: If you like the deck and you are interested to try it out, play many many games with it. You will then find out how to utilize the synergies better and manage its economy even more so.

Also yeah you need to find your Data Raven. Luck is as much of a factor as in any dekc in netrunner. Maybe you got a bit unlucky.

5 Apr 2015 Letsaros

NOTE: I think i found a replacement for Checkpoint. So i'll do an Edit soon and i'll publish the 54 card version as soon as i am pleased enough with it. Thank you all for your feedback.

6 Apr 2015 ncaron

Really curious about the Checkpoint replacement has it's been pretty efficient for me. Amso please post a link to the 54 version here!

6 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@ncaron

Will post the 54 version as soon as it proves itself through playtesting. I am on Jinteki.net daily trying it out and I will playtest it in my local store with the guys soonish.

As about Checkpoint... Well i'd thought i give Orion another chance. Thing is this decks will have around 2 Bad Publicity. If you Rez Checkpoint you go to 3 BP and the Runner can simply not break the subroutine but instead pay the trace. with an average 1-2 credits depending on link. In an Anarch/Criminal heavy meta where cash is not a problem Checkpoint is usually a sad panda as 1 credit to pass through it like it's made of paper is the same amount a Corroder needs to pass an Ice Wall.

On the other hand Orion can be advanced, therefore bluffed as a Wormhole / Fire Wall that many use in Weyland decks. With 4 advancement tokens on it he is cheaper to rez than Checkpoint but much more effective. (yeah i am aware that you have also spent 4 clicks on him but in this particular deck you have the time to wait it out). In case of a good GRNDL Refinery burst you can even hard cast and surprise the Runner thus opening a good score window.

As i say in the description will never again replace an Archer for an Orion. I wouldn't mind replacing the Checkpoint though. Got to keep playtesting it though.

7 Apr 2015 omgitsblake

@Letsaros

I would definately consider taking out the Checkpoint for a Wormhole or an Orion. In this style of deck you're usually gonna have atleast one bad pub which is fine: it incentives the runner to run more, which we want, however going to 2-3 just gives the runner so much room in play. You can bluff it as an Ice Wall or a Changeling with the addition of firing off Data Ravens subroutine which could win a game.

7 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@omgitsblake

Which is exactly what i said in the comment above yours :) (great minds think alike?) I am playtesting atm with an Orion instead of a Checkpoint. Will post results soon. Wormhole i tried and didn't like so much. The lack of subroutines apart from the 'copy another ICE' is what i hated most. Orion is kinda more expensive but can stand on his own better than Wormhole.

7 Apr 2015 ncaron

@Letsaros another thought I had is to replace 1 Data Raven with Information Overload. I've played against a few runners who stopped caring about tags once they got their Plascrete Carapace out and this is a great way to punish them. So far I'm liking it... even thinking of swapping a 2nd Data Raven for more Information Overload

7 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@ncaron Well if the Runner makes the mistake of not caring about tags in a deck like this you should encourage it not give him the idea of removing them :P. The reason i need 3x Data Raven is not because 3 are needed SO much but because at some point one WILL get trashed. Hell you might even want to trash it yourself to trash a Knight or someone might Parasite it or Femme Fatale it. If you have 2x and one is on HQ protecting you against early Siphons or other nasty stuff. Then that means your RnD is less dangerous to Run now. You need the 3rd Data Raven for cases like this. I've played more than 100 games with this deck by now. I would never go to 2x no matter how good it sounds because my experience running with this deck says otherwise.

Ofc that doesn't mean you can't do it. Maybe your meta is much different than mine.

7 Apr 2015 omgitsblake

@ncaron I agree with @Letsaros here.

Data Raven is cheaper, not only to rez, but because there is no trace to give a tag, which imo is the strongest thing about this card. In every game I play throwing one on R&D and HQ completely shuts down the centrals. The fear of scorch is real but besides that the runner is thinking of the 2 cred, 1 click tax to detag. This deck already runs tight on economy and can't afford to shoot traces off all the time.

Also since all of the other ICE besides Archer is comparatively lackluster I am almost guarenteed a parasite or fem to be thrown on DR. Running 3 gives you options, a backup, and a quicker draw to one.

If your worried about Plascrete Carapace I run an almost identical deck to this with -1 Power Shutdown, -1 Checkpoint, +2 Shattered Remains to punish runs on adavnced cards.

7 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@omgitsblake

Agree completely. The only reason i don't run Shattered Remains is because Dedicated Response Team with right play can eat through Plascrete Carapace

8 Apr 2015 MTUCache

Questions on piloting this deck:
A.) What cards are making up your ideal draw? (2xSE, Raven, and burst econ?)

B.) What are mulliganing for? (I'm assuming Raven here, but not sure if you want to save the tag-decision as a surprise for mid-game after you've scored a False Lead).

C.) Are you taking any risks at all on the early flatline (i.e., ignoring IHW)? Or are you holding all meat damage in hand/un-rezzed as late as possible so you can guarantee the flatline in one shot?

D.) Any change in strategy against Edward Kim: Humanity's Hammer or Utopia Shard? Losing your Scorches would seem to cripple this deck.

E.) How often are runners floating multiple tags against you? Any thought at all to including Traffic Accident? (No idea what you would swap them for, but they'd be cheaper than the DRTs and more of a surprise, as long as you're not holding them in-hand for entire game without getting the 2 tags.)

Last question on the deck composition:

F.) Any thought at all to including The Board? Granted, it's a weak lose-less card through 90% of the game, but if it's coming down to late-game and you need some more time it could buy you another couple of turns at a minimum.

8 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@MTUCache

Good question. i'll try my best andwering al of them.

A.) I assume when you say ideal you man IDEAL. :P That would be 1x Data Raven , 1x Archer 1x Dedicated Response Team , 1x Hostile Takeover 1x Hedge Fund . Enough economy to last some rezzes and Siphon protection.

B.) Well i am usually not mulliganing for something specific. Most opening hands can work. If i mulligan i do it either to get rid of a hand with a Project Atlas AND a The Cleaners or to try and find something specific i might really need VS a specific match up.

C.) No i usually don't. As i said in the description most Runners worth their salt tend to protect themselves from Flat;ine combos even early. The only reason an ealry Flatline can happen is if the Runner (i am always assuming we are talking about good Runners) steps on an unexpected Snare+DRT rezz. or if he has 3 or less cards in hand ergo the IHW won't work.

D.) Nothing specific. In the SC i won i faced an Edward Kim: Humanity's Hammer in round 4. I won. Wasn't an easy match up but i won in the end. If i remember correctly what gave me the game was 2x Dedicated Response Team rezzes with a The Cleaners scored after i ate through the plascretes with continuous meat damage during a long game.

E.) Good Runners never do that. If they do it's usually a sure kill for this deck. They usually play around the tags and lose loads of clicks removing them. Thus i don't like Traffic Accident much. Plus it's a one-use thingy. Dedicated Response Team doesn't always get trashed and can work more than once.

F.) In the first ever version of this deck i had The Board and Off the Grid . Never seemed to work for me. It's very dangerous losing it to a good outplay in a long game and this deck tends to do long games.

Hope i answered everytihng. If not feel free to hammer me with as many questions as you want :)

8 Apr 2015 Kateislove.

So many Argus decklists lately. Is this the only one that managed to succeed in competitive play? Weyland is my fav Corp and when i stop playtesting my Titan deck i will try this one. Props dude! (or dudette)

8 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@Kateislove.

Thanks mate. Happy you like it.

9 Apr 2015 tuism

An Argus deck that works! Rad gotta try it out :)

I didn't go the Raven route because I figured eventually the runner will get tired of untagging. Nope not true. I also tried to go with 2 pointers + Punative package... Nope doesn't work.

Let's see how it plays :) copies deck

9 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@tuism

hehe. Thanks mate :)

My only advice will be to be patient with its economy. Master its econ and you can work miracles. /Weyland high five!

9 Apr 2015 MTUCache

Had a few really enjoyable games with this deck yesterday (admittedly, I did swap a few cards). Managing your econ definitely is going to have a learning curve, as I had 20+ credits for most of one game, and spent the next clicking for cred the whole game.

Two of the three games were very long, close-run games, which I feel are the most enjoyable. The other was a runner-mistake which led to an early Scorching.

A few things I noticed against Noise (my losing matchup):

1.) The econ gets even more dicey when you get into the mid-game and end up needing to purge viruses every few turns to clear Datasuckers and Parasites before they kill your Data Ravens/Archers.

2.) If you don't get your Ice set up correctly over R&D, this deck becomes a real slog. Imps really cramp your style when you're looking for meat damage cards, especially when he's running through Raven twice with a Medium every turn and then clearing tags. He got me in lock pretty quickly since he was able to trash any upcoming damage/ice, and all he had to do was beat the traces to get in.

3.) Bad Pub stacks up fast. Those Hostiles look really nice when you can IAA them and end your turn up 5 credits and 1 agenda point, but usually it's not worth it for the econ, when you could have just clicked for 3 of those creds. They do make perfect early Archer-food, but having 3 BP is terrible in a long game (completely nerfs your Raven traces, which otherwise should be very taxing). I ended up swapping out one of the Atlases for 2x Veterans Program (losing a GRNDL), but I think this was the wrong move... The correct move (I think), would be to either swap out the Hostiles for different 1-pointers, OR, more likely, just install the Hostiles and leave them out there posing as Snares until you actually NEED the money or agenda points...

Anyway, definitely a fun deck to play. I've never been much for flatline decks, because I always assume that new runners hate playing against them, but as I play more advanced runners I find that they don't mind these matchups at all, and since they can play around the tags it makes for a game that plays more like a dance (with landmines).

9 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@MTUCache

Nice points. My experience with Noise is kinda different. And when i say different i mean i've never lost a match against Noise. I always expect the datasucker so i always ICE my centrals early. Bait an archer to trash Datasucker even if he can bring it back. Make him use his cards to set up Datasuckers. Your Chronos Project can be lifesaving so don't give it away easy. Dig for it. Use powershutdown to trash programs the turn he uses Aesop's to trash his Cache so he doesn't sacrifice it. If need use the Atlas token to bring back a Power Shutdown that you have Jacksoned earlier. Play it again.

If you got lockdowned by Noise's grid then it means you did something wrong (and when i mean wrong i mean something that might have seemed good but works against you in that certain match up) early game.

One purge with Archer open and your centrals IcEd-up means he needs to pay credits to put at least 3 tokens back to datasucker to be able to break 1 archer.

And ofcourse...against Noise...Double archer (or Sentry Changeling+Archer) . Always an awesome surprise. Let them beat the one using Datasucker tokens+Mimic. Then they faceplant another Archer and you trash the Sucker+Mimic.

As about Bad Pub...

Well in 100++ games i've played with this deck not one time (NOT.ONE.TIME!) did someone not break the Data Raven trace. Runners tend to only pass through a Raven only when they have a Sentrybreaker to break it's subroutine. I never had a problem because i had average 2 BadPub. But that's because after all those games i know how to play around it and set up my servers to setup kills or Archer surprises.

This deck is not easy to pilot and in most games will take you to the late game but the pilot needs to play carefully. A couple of early game mistakes (especially in econ) can lead to defeat.

9 Apr 2015 MTUCache

It was a pretty weird game (not to derail your discussion here about your deck too far, apologies). He didn't have a sentry breaker the entire game, and was completely dependent on parasites/datasuckers to kill them. I did get multiple ice on all centrals early, but mistakes with my econ let him have runs on centrals where I wasn't able to rez that ice (giving him the tokens he needed).

The order that I drew my ice in led to some weak stacks over those centrals though too (Ice Wall over Archer, Enigma over Raven, the very valuable Changelings ended up over my Archives and remote), and I definitely made more mistakes here by not purging quickly enough after he hosted Parasite so he was able to trash the Archer. (Also, I had swapped out the Shutdown for a Shattered Remains by this game, so didn't have that option.)

Alternatively, he only got through my remote scoring server once, which happened to have that Shattered in it at the time. He had already seen a Snare and trashed several DRTs by this point, so he pretty much ignored remotes for the second half of the game and started pounding my now-weak R&D.

By the end game I did get a HUGE Chronos off on him, and wrecked his heap while he had only two cards left in his stack (I think I still had 20 cards in R&D at this point because of the Jacksons and not overdrawing), setting me up for what I thought would be an easy flatline. Unfortunately, we were both on 5 points by that time, and he had his Medium/Imps already on-line and enough econ to make repeated runs into R&D. I was broke and couldn't get to any ice before he trashed it with Imp, so I was left purging every other turn before the Medium got too big, spending my other turns trying to score the last two one-pointers I had in my HQ before he could access any.

As Wellington would say, "It was the nearest run thing you ever saw"... despite my rookie mistakes piloting the deck, it still took a very good Noise runner to the brink, and made for a very fun game for both of us.

Anyway, again, apologies for derailing your deck discussion.... Thanks again for the ideas! You were not wrong about Changeling being an MVP in this deck, that was easily the most effective ice in all my games (possibly tied with Raven). I only wish I had stuck with the list you posted with the multiple GRNDLs instead of swapping one out, as I can see why that was your other MVP. :p

9 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@MTUCache

You are not derailing the post at all mate. Keep up the feedback :) That way people checking out the decklist will get even more ideas.

It's a really hard-to-pilot deck mostly due to its economy. Personally i don't trust Shattered Remains outside of Blue Sun: Powering the Future . In Argus Security: Protection Guaranteed i prefer to eat through Plascrete with continous meat damage.

11 Apr 2015 MKcrimson

Mostly copied the list outside of replacing HRI with Cleaners and Checkpoint with Orion. Considering replacing Power Shutdown with Shattered Remains. Went 2-1 in my LGS'S Thursday league. Only loss was to an opponent who refused to run remotes unless they were advanced, which I didn't catch on to until too late (also Crash Space is obnoxious). Loving the build so far, but I'm considering testing -3 Snare -1 Raven for +2 Midseasons +1 Traffic Accident +1 Subliminal.

11 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@MKcrimson

Usually i don't put the Snares in remotes. Which means if the opponent isn't running remotes makes me a very very happy little Weyland. I woudn't go as far as to remove the Snares but i am trying a build with -1 Snare! -1 Jackson Howard -1 Power Shutdown and added +1 Bandwidth +2 Ghost Branch

13 Apr 2015 MTUCache

Another week on, and I'm still really digging this deck. It's seriously single-handedly making me believe the Corp still has a chance since O&C came out (since every other Corp archetype out there is getting crapped on).

I think I've definitely got the econ figured out, and it's working quite well. Starting to tinker now a bit more the traps and mixing up in-game strategies between going for the flatline and scoring out. Also, I'm beginning to tinker with the Ice a bit as well, just trying some different combinations.

Only change I've made to the agenda-suite is to swap HRI for another Cleaners. Other than that, these are right-on. Chronos continues to wreck Shapers and Anarchs. The Atlases are starting to feel like they're just in there because 3/2s are awesome.

Assets are the real playground here. I've tried a few different combinations, but the one I'm leaning towards now is 2xDRT, 2xGRNDL, 1xShattered, 2xSnare, 3xJackson, and an Aggressive Secretary. The Snares are nice in-hand against Criminals w/ Sneakdoor, but I'm not always holding the 8 credits it takes to get two ambushes off in a turn, whereas the Secretary is only 2. The Archers do the real rig-trashing, but it's nice to have another ambush in there that I can IAA and rip open a huge scoring window with. (Also: Jackson is life with this deck. Keep the 3 Jacksons! I get agenda flooded early in about half my games, and he's a serious MVP for getting un-stuck and also for adding cards back into your deck in longer mill-type games.) I still haven't figured out how to maximize the DRTs in this deck yet, but I don't want to remove more than one of them until I do.

ICE: Jeebus is Archer still strong. In probably half my games I'm trashing someone's rig with Archer, even when I'm not trying to score out. I score a couple 3/1s, just to get them running remotes, and then BAM... lights out. Doing serious work with this guy. Other than that, I've been piloting this without Checkpoint for a few games, and I think I'm going to put it back in (along with the Secretary). There's only so many ways people are dealing with Str7 Code Gates, so putting this on HQ/R&D is going to be a real deterrent (assuming the Ravens weren't already doing that enough). Also, since I've got the econ pretty well figured out, I'm going to swap one of the Ice Walls for a Fire Wall.

Operations are spot on... I'd like to have another Shutdown, but can't figure out what to take out for it.

Again, thanks for putting this together. As I said, I'm really enjoying this one. I never thought flatline/meat-damage would be my style, but I'm really connecting with this one and performing well with it.

Most epic game yet: Tied with 6 AP each, Installed a 3/1 into locked remote for game-point next turn, leaving Kate with one turn to dig for her last point. She Clone Chipped 2xFemme and blew 15(?) credits to get through a Raven/Archer/Archer/Enigma R&D stack to access 2 cards.... and she pulled it. Probably the most fun I've had taking a loss while playing ANR. :p

Also, burned through my first 3xPlascrete deck last night... no problems at all. Gabe's entire neighborhood is still on fire... (plus, I didn't realize how bad Archer kicks Ninja's ass until last night. Wow.)

13 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@MTUCache

Once again thanks for the awesome feedback.

Pesonally i wouldn't cut the 3rd DRT but maybe that's just me cause they have won me loads of games while 1 is trashed and 2 are in play or simply by drawing them fast enough.

As about Checkpoint. Well the problem with it is that with 2 BP by 2x hostile takeover +1 by rezzing Checkpoint a runner with 1 link can pay a handfull of credits and not be bothered much by it.

Right now i am playtesting with 2x Snares instead of 3 and swapped in 2x Ghost Branch. I like Aggressive Secretary a lot but i prefer the heavy tagging of Ghost Branch + that you can blow it on access for free. I still prefer the 3x Snare but i haven't played more than 15-17 games with Ghost Branch so can't really say for sure.

As about your other points, yes archer+Jackson are 3x for sure. I tried for 3-4 games to play with 2x Jacksons and i really missed the 3rd one.

Firewall was initially in the deck but i took it out as 5 credits to rezz an early ice is a bit too much and if the other 4 cards in your opening hand are good then you don't want to mulligan. So some early pressure by the runner can work wonders for him.

Cheers again for taking time to post your feedback :)

14 Apr 2015 MTUCache

Nice. I like the Ghost Branch a lot in my NBN tagging strategy, but I'm not always sure how advanced traps work in decks like this (whether it's Ghost Branch or the Secretary/Shattered that I'm trying).

Sometimes when they go off they can devastate your opponent, other times it's a huge investment that becomes an obvious trap after it's been sitting there for 3 turns without being scored. Unless you've got advancable things in your deck that can be dangerous if left alone AND dangerous if accessed, there's not much incentive for the runner to go after it then. GRNDL helps, and Ronin would be great if it wasn't so much influence, but once Contract Killer comes out I think that will be a much more viable strategy. At that point you can IAA traps in naked remotes forever and they have to access them eventually. Sometimes they'll save themselves from the Killer. Sometimes they'll trash an 8c GRNDL. Sometimes it will cost them half their rig. Sometimes it gets them a handful of tags.

Is that a direction you're interested in taking this deck? (Almost like a shell-game Weyland?)... I'm leaning that way currently, but it works great as-is right now and I'm not sure a few extra traps (instead of the Snares) is going to make it much better.

15 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@MTUCache

Yeah traps in general have a specific timing. Suspect an inside job? Bluff a trap, You got yourself a fake scoring window? Trap. But generally i agree with you.

I really want to try Contract Killer when it comes out. That means that even though the deck works fine as it is i will have to at least playtest with 2x Killers and the Ghost Branch. Contact Killer without other traps or at least 1 GRNDL would otherwise be too obvious.

20 Apr 2015 Genevaman616

Great write up. I've been thinking of running Argus since Order and Chaos came out but could never really get it working. As you said, economy is a big issue. I might try my hand at something similar to this though and see what happens.

27 Apr 2015 Letsaros

@Genevaman616

Please do and don't be shy to leave any kind of feedback :)

18 Jun 2015 clickclickclik

My friend net decked this, it is the bane of my existence... But it wins, good job!

22 Jun 2015 Letsaros

@clickclickclik

Thanks hehe... I am posting a newer up to date with the current meta version soonish.

29 Aug 2015 mmychal

How does the deck perform in the current meta with Film Critic and Faust?

16 Sep 2015 Letsaros

@mmychal

Well, Film Critic means that in order to get the hosted agenda in your score area you need to run on click 1 and 2 only. Else you gotta wait a turn. That means that even though he can shut off a big part of your play you can bait the runner in accessing another 1 pointer or make him pass through duo-ravens so he will end the turn with at least 1 tag or waste his whole turn to clean 2 tags. That way you can burn the critic on your turn or even if you are broke for some reason and can't burn him the runner will have to use 2 clicks to put the hosted agenda on his score area. It is an inconvenience but you can play around it. (also i am running 2x Contract Killer and am playtesting them in jinteki.net as we speak)

With Faust i don't have much of a problem as Runners need to have cards in hand in combination with at least 1 plascrete to not die which means that i can bait a 1-pointer for the kill or score it. If Faust is hitting centrals then i can set up for the kill while scoring remotes. Plus Data Raven still apply the tag so an RnD run with Faust vs 2x Data Raven still leaves the runner with 2 tags.

Bonus points for baiting a remote run with Faust and uncover a Snare! for the kill :P

21 Oct 2015 igrekk

Hi there! What about actual meta version of Argus? I'm curious because you seems to be real Argus-guru!

I have some notes here:

I think the best agenda spread for Argus is:

3 Project Atlas 3 Oaktown Renovation 3 Hostile Takeover 3 False Lead 2 Chronos Project

It maximizes use of Argus ability and do not have 3pointers.

What do you think about Spiderweb compared to Changeling and Quandary instead of Enigma for better rush? How to deal with DDoS and comback of crimanals or Anarch DDoS+Siphon decks?

22 Oct 2015 Letsaros

@igrekk

I am working on an Argus deck with a similar agenda suite but i am trying to squeeze inside 1x Underway Renovation.

I play 1x Spiderweb because it eats through Cerberus "Lady" H1 tokens but i won't compare it to Changeling since Net-Ready Eyes are not as common as we thought in the current meta. (at least mine) and it's awesome to have an ETR Sentry vs Mimic users.

I am trying lots of stuff these last months and still hasn't decided yet in how to Argus properly in this meta. What i really love is The All-Seeing I and for 1 influence i think it's worth it.

22 Oct 2015 igrekk

@Letsaros

What do you think about going out of bad pub and include some public support?

5 Jan 2016 Letsaros

@igrekk Sorry about my late response. I have tried public upport and liked 2x of it. I think now post NAPD list we might get a chance to Argus some people in the face again. :)

23 Feb 2016 cygnals

Leela DLR/Paparazzi hard-counters this deck to the pavement and curb-stomps its teeth out. Any tactics you could recommend against this degenerate archetype? :P