Dain Bramage

phrydephisch 181

18 comments
6 Jun 2015 Heartthrob

I think the Mushin + Punitive combo is real folks. Can't access the mushin'd card because it's CO...but also can't access it because it's a 3pt agenda and he's packing 2 Punitive. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't...basically sums up this deck. Great build man, I'm gonna give this some reps and let you know what I think.

With only 6 scorable agendas for the runner, R&D lock is a rough go. That's going to be pretty big against a meta that loves to RDI, Maker's and Medium so much.

6 Jun 2015 Tytles

Maybe switch out 2 Domestic Sleepers and 1 Priority Requisition for 3 Self-Destruct Chips. That makes it to where you can lower their hand size if they avoid your brain dmg.

6 Jun 2015 phrydephisch

@Heartthrob glad you like the deck! It's incredibly fun to pilot, and really catches most people off guard.

@Tytles As I was refining this deck, I actually had Self-Destruct Chips in there at one point. I like Domestic Sleepers a little better in this build because you can score it out of hand, and if the runner steals it, it doesn't gain them anything. I felt I lost more to random accesses with Self-Destruct Chips. That being said, I feel this is mostly a reflection of my own personal play style. Self-Destruct Chips are very oppressive when scored, so if they fit your play style by all means, try it out!

Some other easy changes that can be made to the deck are with Gyri Labyrinth and Ryon Knight. Gyri Labyrinth has won me games before, and a lot of the time acts like Chum if they don't have a breaker, forcing a jack out. However, it does nothing a lot of the time as well, especially with Yog coming back in the meta in a big way. It could easily be swapped for another piece of ice (I would do a second Ichi personally). Ryon Knight is in a similar situation. He has done work for me before, especially with a scored Woton, but I find a lot of the time he is a card I discard from hand if I need the space, and I don't think I can pull off his brain damage. He can be swapped for just about anything, but I would seriously consider another Archived Memories or piece of ice in the slot.

7 Jun 2015 Shulmey

Ryon Knight works a LOT better if you're using Brain-Taping Warehouse and False Lead. In your deck, you're probably better off just using boring old Ash...

7 Jun 2015 SlayerCNV

blue level is incredibly weak with this ID..

7 Jun 2015 cranked

I'm with @SlayerCNV, I think the Clearances are incredibly weak with this ID. Your hand size is already at a premium, why clog it any further? I'd much rather just play Adonis/Eve and/or Melange as economy.

8 Jun 2015 Flux

What do you do about rich runners? I've been intrigued by these builds but every runner packing a ton of credits.

8 Jun 2015 phrydephisch

Lots of discussion on this build, much more than I thought there would be (honestly just published the list because of a request from an opponent on jinteki.net to see it). Thanks for your ideas, it's given me lots to think about.

@Shulmey I think you are 100% correct about Ryon Knight. He belongs in the version of this deck that packs Self-Distruct Chips, Brain Tapping Warehouse, False Lead, Valley Grid, etc. that slowly whittles down the hand with brain damage. In this deck, it doesn't make much sense, and I will be cutting it from the next iteration of the deck.

@SlayerCNV and @cranked You both make valid points about Blue Level Clearance. Often, I don't play it unless I have Jackson Howard on the board or in hand to install last click (Jackson does a ton of work in this deck btw). I originally ran 2, and switched one to Restructure in testing. I could see switching it for a second Restructure for this reason. However, Green Level Clearance is great here. It gives you card draw plus a few credits for a click. It doesn't seem like much, but with the small deck size it can find you what you are missing (Punitive, Archived Memories, Mushin, etc.) as well as give you funds to pay for it. You can usually play something with your remaining clicks and not have to discard.

@Flux Rich runners are definitely what this deck has a hard time with. There are a few things in the deck that combat this though. Hitting with an Overwriter helps a lot, as this means you only need to land one Punitive most of the time, making multiple Punitives Taxing monetarily. Also, scoring agendas off of Mushin is taxing as well. If you can score Utopia Shard, it makes advanced cards taxing no matter what they are. Most of the ice is bioroid ice, so a scored Woton provides a moderate tax as well, in such a way that the runner's math can get a bit fuzzy. Priority Req is useful too, even if you don't rez Heimdall or Janus with it, as free ice rezes are always nice. Archived Memories is also super useful in this build, as punitive number 2 until you actually draw a second one. Then it can be used to recur Hedge Fund/Restructure.

The basic idea with this deck is to play fast. Use Jackson/Clearances to draw the pieces you need as soon as possible, playing ice and burst econ as needed. If you have mushin, don't be afraid to take risks and rush out agendas with it without punitive to back it up. They know what ID you are playing, so there will always be the fear of Overwriter to make them think twice about running it. The longer the game goes, the less likely it is that you will be able to out money the runner, which is why I like the burst econ over asset econ.

In the end, I think that this is an incredibly fun deck to play that can definitely catch people off guard. It isn't a deck I would take to Regionals because of the weaknesses highlighted by this discussion, but definitely one to consider for a fun GNK type event.

9 Jun 2015 rumirumirumirumi

I think your deck is pretty neat and I'll have to try it out. I wonder though if the ice isn't too expensive to rez with the clearance economy. Successful Demonstration probably pays dividends for this, but I wonder if it's enough.

9 Jun 2015 Heartthrob

Bro, your deck got a nice little mention in an article. Glad you published it ;)

self-modifyingcode.com

10 Jun 2015 Glitch29

I'm on about the third iteration of a very similar deck, and I just linked in here from the SMC article. It is just blowing my mind how close the two decks are.

I have a Viper over the second Viktor 2.0. I have a Successful Demonstration and a 2nd Blue Level over the Restructure and 3rd Punitive. Otherwise, Operations and ICE are identical.

I love what you've done with the agenda choices though - that was absolutely brilliant. I knew that Mushin strategies supported big, powerful agendas, but going for all 3-pointers makes the Domestic Sleepers asymmetry as strong as it can possibly get. The 3/3/2/2/2/2/2/2 agenda package requires 15.8 random accesses for the runner, compared to your 3/3/3/3/3/3/0/0 package which requires a whole 18.3. Combined with the Punitive Counterstrike synergy, it seems a clear winner over the Mandatory Upgrades plan.

I still think MU is the best single agenda for this type of strategy, but it's undeniable how much easier it is to count to 7 this way.

My only real question is how is the Ryon Knight working out for you? I quickly got the impression that he was nearly unplayable and stopped even testing with him. I wonder I was too quick to judgement though.

11 Jun 2015 Tytles

In response to `@Flux's question I think the best way to beat a rich runner is to be prepared. Or in other words be ready to take their money away from them with Reversed Accounts under a HUGE glacier. Or build a tag deck to take up a ton of their time removing tags.

11 Jun 2015 phrydephisch

Thanks for the love guys, I am still in shock that this deck has generated this much discussion. I can't believe it has gotten love from outside sources (thanks @Heartthrob for posting the link) I am by no means the best deckbuilder out there, and the discussion has helped a ton with playing the deck. After all of the suggestions, I seriously intend to do a revision soon.

@rumirumirumirumi most of the ice actually isn't too bad to rez with the current econ. The two biggest pains are Janus and Heimdall 2.0, and I seldom rez those unless it will lead to a kill (running last click after already having eaten an overwriter) or I can use Priority Requisition to cheat them out.

@Glitch29 I am glad you are liking the shell, great minds think alike I guess. The agenda suite is one of my favorite aspects of this deck. It makes it very easy to make runs on centrals hard. I love hiding an agenda in Archives, as it means that R&D is lower in density, and the agenda is no longer vulnerable in HQ. Plus, if they happen to take it out of Archives, they are dead from punitive most likely (though people seldom run Archives). I am not a huge fan of Successful Demonstration in this build, as I find that runners more often than not make successful runs. As for Ryon Knight, see previous discussion in this thread about him. He is definitely being cut from the deck going forward.

@Tytles Reversed accounts is an interesting idea. I will have to see if I can find the influence for it. Seems solid for this build.

11 Jun 2015 Tytles

Cool. I really don't normally have amazing ideas. But this conversation helped me out a ton. Thanks guys.

11 Jun 2015 Tytles

Actually I never noticed the Utopia Fragment with mushin and all the 3pt agendas. I think that was really smart if you put something like Janus1.0 over it.

15 Jun 2015 TheseGlyphs

Hey man, really enjoying this deck. I've used it as the inspiration for a version which fakes out Mandatory Upgrades with Mushin for crazy 4-click turns here, see what you think!

24 Jun 2015 dasher

I am running a similar deck with, but with Adonis Campaign, Shell Corporation and Hedge Fund for econ and still find this not to be enough. Interested to know how this deck fairs with its econ limitations.

30 Jun 2015 phrydephisch

@dasher Sorry for taking a while to reply. I think the key for this build is that, though you make more money off of the campaigns and such, it takes longer. The clearances provide burst econ to quickly earn cash and find your punitives at the same time. If the runner sets up their long term econ, it becomes a much harder game for sure.