Rebuttal: Agenda Density

Urbaknight 15

I'm not the greatest player, but I think there's something here now that Vanity Project and Back Channels are in the card pool. I was trying to think of ways that counter the upcoming Film Critic meta, after realizing that Argus/Haarpsicord/all of Jinteki get screwed, and it occurred to me that simply lowering the agenda density was a powerful strategy. This deck runs 5 agendas, 3 that can hit for 4 on a Punitive Counterstrike and 1 that can hit for 6. The traps have been serving me well, but I'm very unsure about the ICE. I'd love your thoughts and opinions.

12 Aug 2015 catch8088

I have a pre-Old Hollywood Blue Sun deck that works on the same principle. I use Curtain Wall, Oversight AI, and other large ICE. Morph ICE are good for BABW, I believe. You should also use 3 point agendas instead of NAPD to exploit Punitive maximally.

12 Aug 2015 Urbaknight

NAPD means the runner doesn't score out if he steals it and a Vanity. Being able to Punitive for 3 doesn't seem like a good enough trade off.

12 Aug 2015 FarCryFromHuman

It really feels like Mushin No Shin has a home here. You can use it on a Vanity Project stuck in HQ and follow up with a Back Channels to dump it into Archives if you have Punitive Counterstrikes in hand, or just score it next turn if the runner thinks it's a trap. As always it's great for traps themselves, especially combined with BC. That's either lethal net damage or 9 for . You could get rid of the Chums for one, and perhaps a Cerebral Overwriter?

As for ICE, I don't think you have enough. I'd consider other meat damage options like Checkpoint as you don't care a whole lot about a little bad publicity. Grim is terrifying. Errand Boy does mad work over centrals, but lots of runners pack Parasite and other ICE removal, so I'd only take one. Really the only piece of commonly played Weyland ICE that is bad here is Archer.

You'd need space for these changes, so the Contract Killers would probably have to go. Off the Grid seems hard to play here and suffers from its usual drawbacks: too expensive to rez and runners are experts at getting into HQ. Power Shutdown is nice but might not be necessary.

@catch8088 isn't wrong about the better punitive power of a 5/3 (The Cleaners obv, or High-Risk Investment if you are worried about missing your punitive traces). However, NAPD Contract protects itself and requires the runner to steal two Vanity Projects to win (which would win the game anyway, making the 4 tax pointless for the runner). If you decide to run ICE that generates bad pub, chuck the NAPD, tear off your shirt and howl at the moon. If not, I think the NAPD should stay.

13 Aug 2015 Urbaknight

@FarCryFromHuman I feel ya' on the Mushin No Shin, it's just a matter of influence, as you say. I've been really liking Chum, though--it's cheap, does damage, doesn't get run over by Yog.0 or Parasite, and allows me to bluff. Maybe I go the Uncorrodable approach with the ICE?

13 Aug 2015 WhackedMaki

I think the deck could be served just as well with only two Vanity Project's and two 5/3's. I've always like The Cleaners for extra meat damage. This also frees up one more influence for you to use. I will also suggest Research Station. It's not a common card, but when I've run the low agenda density deck I've found it works wonders. When you're holding onto multiple Punitive Counterstrike and other operations while waiting for an agenda or trap, your hand can start to fill up with cards you don't want to get rid of. If you find yourself running into that problem, I'd say to at least give it a try.

13 Aug 2015 Urbaknight

@WhackedMaki I'd considered the double Vanity Project, double 3/5 approach initially, but running that setup means that any two agendas stolen are enough for the runner to go out. With three of them and an NAPD Contract I can reduce the runner's ability to win on two agendas while rockin' the same agenda density. Having said that, you might be right in valuing extra meat damage and more influence over this extra defense--I'm not sure.

Regardless, I'm still most concerned with the ICE situation. Right now I've taken out the Chums and moved some things around to include Ice Walls, a Wormhole, and a single Builder. Still testing those. I did, however, throw in two Mushin No Shins and three Public Supports--loving those guys.

24 Sep 2015 Ulkrond

Open to change but this might be the update you'r elooking for.