The Ismenian Dragon
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| Standard Ban List 23.09 (latest) |
| Standard Ban List 23.08 (active) |
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CowboyTintin 216
So I've been playing around with this deck for... months now. And I love it... kinda like a father loves a bad child: it almost always disappoints, but I work with it, try to make it be better, and then give it another go. Then if fails again... sometimes worse than others... but I always come back to it.
Why I return time after time is a good question. I know what they say about Weyland, and I partly agree. Not enough strong upgrades, not versatile enough ICE, often problematic economy, and no affordable way to slip good tag punishment (or any other kind of punishment for that matter) into the deck structure... Sure there's Scorched Earth, but for that you need money. And - at least for me - runners always seem to have more...
This is probably my 8th version of this deck. I've tried 100% fast advance with Shipment from Kaguya, Trick of Light, and Reclamation Order... but the ICE sucked. I didn't have enough influence to splash for any surprises. And in Weyland surprises are worth they're weight in gold.
Then I tried to mix fast advance with more taxing ICE, but I couldn't get a good balance. Then I just tried tinkering with different ways of keeping money, being able to rez any ICE when I want, and forcing scoring windows.
Finally I've come up with this. Let's crack open the hood and take a little look at the sputtery engine...
AGENDAS
I've had just about everything available to Weyland slotted in here. Finally I've come up with this spread... 5 one-point agendas, Firmware Updates and Hostile Takeover. These are mostly for money and fodder for the Enforcer 1.0s and Archers. Firmware also has a nice synergy with Mark Yale. (Spend all 4 counters for 12 credits... then you've got flash money from 1 credit -- to rez Mark -- AND an agenda for any Archers or Enforcers...)
The Government Takeover allows for the one-point agenda spread. That way I have one high-pointer, and all the rest can still be normal. Also has some nice synergies with Punitive Counterstrike... obviously...
MONEY
One of the biggest problems I've had playing Weyland is money... Can't get it when I need it, or can't get enough. Also, I usually just have bad luck with money... so most of this deck tries to make sure I can get credits if/when I need them.
Firmware Updates: 12 credits from Mark Yale. High-Risk Investment Hostile Takeover Beanstalk Royalties Hedge Fund Restructure
That's pretty much it... Even I -- with my incredibly bad luck with economy -- can usually stay even with the flood of insolvency.
SCORING WINDOWS
Build a structure that lets me force a tenable scoring window has been the most challenging element of putting together this deck. I'm still not sure I've done this satisfactorily, either.
Crisium Grid against Eater/Keyhole, Old Hollywood Grid basically to mitigate surprise Government Takeover losses.
I've tried to make the ICE as taxing as possible, with occasional teeth. Eli 1.0, Spiderweb, Enforcer 1.0, and Viktor 1.0 have all been very successful... none of the other's have, but I haven't been able to come up with better alternatives. As an example, Caduceus has never really delivered, at all. But whenever I look to remove it, I'm not very keen on my other options either...
Assassin was in here at one point. As was Ice Wall, Fire Wall, Hadrian's Wall, Tyrant, Heimdall 1.0, etc, etc... All these cards ended up being to conditional, and when playing against siphon-happy Anarchs or Criminals can become purely dead cards. They ended up being too much of a liability for me to justify keeping.
FINAL THOUGHTS
I suspect a few things about this deck. I suspect that it's not very bad, but that it's still not very good. The real problem is I'm not exactly sure about either of those suspicions.
The more I play this deck the better I get at it, but it's difficult to know whether its poor performance is a fault in the deck design, or a fault in my own piloting ability. The current build is by far the best performing iteration this deck's had, but it still usually loses... even if only by a few points now.
I also suspect that more pressure against the runner may be necessary. Where that pressure should be placed in the deck I'm not completely sure, though.
Ultimately, I'd love to have some criticism of this deck based on plays so that I can either 1) confirm that the deck is ok, and then figure out where my own play errors are, or 2) get some fresh opinions on why this particular engine is about as dependable as a Fiat. Or, of course, 3) decide the deck is bad as well as I. :)
For credit where credit is due, there definitely are elements of this deck that have been borrowed from Empires estimable "Three Ways To Win Fascism" deck, most notable the Old Hollywood Grid/Government Takeover mechanic. The vast remainder of the deck, however, has come about by my own bumbling around for the last... 6 months?
Please take a look, play some games, and let me know what you think! As I said, I'd appreciate the effort, welcome any and all criticism, and be pleasantly surprised by any praise.
Bailey
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26 Dec 2015
pandaman64
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27 Dec 2015
CowboyTintin
There's 2 main reasons why I've got this deck together in Titan, not BABW, and both reasons are highly subjective. 1) Titan has more influence, which to my mind means more room for imaginative/aggressive deck building. And 2) Titan's ability for an extra agenda counter -- in my opinion -- can set up some very aggressive plays. Score Project Atlas with 3 only advancement tokens if the runners got you pressed? No problem... you can still have a counter! Also Mark Yale can help make a dynamic board for the runner to hit... Like I said before, Firmware can liquidate into an instant 12 credits, for free (not counting the 1 to rez Mark), and is then available for an Archer or Enforcer... Mark under a moderate tax ICE in a remote can be a nice bait. The extra money from Titan's abilities with agendas like High-Risk Investment and Firmware Updates should justify this ID as a reasonable alternative to BABW. Obviously this is subjective. :) I also just... for some inexplicable reason... like the idea of Titan. 2 more influence? An extra counter? What opulence! The Enforcer 1.0s haven't actually been that bad, other than requiring an agenda to rez. You could also tailor the ICE field a bit towards different runners... Virtual resource heavy? Use the Enforcers first... Big Rig Kate? Maybe Archer... My original idea about Viktor 1.0 had been as a mean early game ICE... It's had mixed results. I picked it mostly because I thought it was nastier than most other 2-point splashes... I like the idea about Meru Mati... I've had it in here in the past, but it was utterly destroyed by things like Faust/Datasucker... etc... That being said, it's probably better than Ice Wall when you're not really planning on advancing much... Do you think cutting the Enforcer 1.0s for something like Tollbooth would actually make that much difference? |
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27 Dec 2015
pandaman64
the issue with enforcer is that two of the subroutines really aren't that big a deal in most games. Could be wrong, but I don't see a lot of virtual resource heavy rigs. Even apex. And if you trash a console...who cares? They run multiple copies, and unless they were running desperado, it's not exactly game winning. Even the first sub is pointless during early game face checks. It would be different if you couldn't just click past subs, but as is your effectively giving up an agenda to MAYBE stifle them a little. I would absolutly run tollbooth over enforcer, if you think the econ can handle it. Way easier to make a scoring window with it than something else. Alternatively, data raven is a pretty healthy switch in for viktor. Super taxing encounter ability, can tag the runner to set up scortch....seems better overall. Personally, I like titan better too. I tried really hard to make it work, but couldn't manage it. But I don't think enough agendas exist yet in weyland to really take advantage of it. |
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27 Dec 2015
RubbishyUsername
Here's the "Fascism: 3 ways to win" deck that he mentioned. Let's see his ice suite and see where we can make improvements: netrunnerdb.com First thing I noticed is that we don't spend influence on our code gates. Enigma is a gear-check ice: it is cheap and has "end the run" on it. That means the runner has to play their breaker before you win the game by scoring agendas behind it. By using 3, we can usually find it near the beginning of the game. However, we can't score agendas behind Viktor 1.0. In fact, since it's our only code gate and only a 1-of, in most games our opponent doesn't even need to play a decoder. That costs the runner much less time and money. Secondly, I can see where the Enforcer 1.0 comes from. What makes it work in Fascism though is the sheer density of 1-pointers. But doesn't it have fewer agendas? Nope. Public Support was named MVP in his deck, and with good reason. Bumping up to 3x Archer goes a long was as well. Two Archers on a remote costs a but-ton of money or might even be impossible to break. You're even running an operation economy instead of an asset one, meaning you can throw it in the scoring server and not lose time. |
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28 Dec 2015
CowboyTintin
So maybe I'll swap out the Enforcer 1.0s and the Viktor 1.0 for 2 Tollbooth and a Data Raven (yes, I have personally seen how much this can destroy a runner's day trying to work around...). If I were to put in Enigma I'm guessing I'd probably drop the Orion (for the cost... Tollbooth would fill that place), and both Caduceus for 3 Enigma... Hmm.... |
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28 Dec 2015
RubbishyUsername
Enigma isn't exactly great, it's just that Viktor is not much better at all. Decoders boost for 1 and break for 1, which makes them just as breakable as barriers, but especially in Weyland they have lower strengths and fewer subroutines than barriers. Yog is also a serious issue as well. Also, I really, really, hope you are dropping Searchlight before you drop Caduceus. Just do the math and you can see that Searchlight is more expensive to tax for the same amount when they don't have a killer and as expensive to tax for the same amount when they do. Hunter is a better choice than Searchlight. Data Raven's a pretty good choice, although a second SEA Source'll go down well too. |
Viktor? Viktor 1.0? What are you doing there? Get outta there before you make the other Ice feel bad you you. Get on out, go home!
I would replace icky vicky and the two enforcers with other out of faction ice. Probably tollbooth or lotus field. Maybe even Data raven.
Also, if HQ defense vs siphon is an issue, I'd reccommend finding room for a couple meru mati. It's worked alright for me.
The biggest issue is that since your running beanstalk royalties...and restructure...why not just cut 2 influence marky mark and firmware updates and run the weyland core ID instead?