SlySquids 'Mother F****** Deck' (Store Championship winner)

SlySquid 4614

This is the newest and final version of the deck I'm most proud of, it went undefeated in it first store champs and I feel is the strongest deck I've made to date

Ok let's look at the cards...

Account Syphon - Is your early game HQ pressure it can be spammed but that's not the goal, it's here to force the corp the keep ice thin on all servers so you can pressure everything mid game. It's obviously also a great econ card and is just great fuel for your fire.

Amped Up- The options this card unlocks is huge, it's main use is to set up huge Wanton Destruction plays and it does that great, but I also love it when I'm playing against shell game decks, keep them poor and amped into every remote, it keeps the control in your court and does crazy work...

Day job- aside from it being my fav art this card is legit, if you like A. Codebusting this card is for you... I love having huge cards like this to play when the corp leaves me with no new options, it keeps the pressure up and makes them realize they can't just click for credits three times... It's also my fav start aside from account syphon.

Deje Vu- This is the card that brings the card together, letting you get the cards MaxX mills feels like a tutor and it lets you recur your mean cards over and over!

The Utensils- this was the last peace to the puzzle of this deck, I wasn't sure if I was going to add them at all but after a few games that ended dragging out I needed to find an answer for troublesome ice that I needed to pass on a regular basis, and I found that with this set of cards.

With this set putting huge pressure on the late game and acting as sudo economy it's hard for your opponent to make good ice placement choices, and that's a huge part of this deck, MAKE THE CORP REACT TO YOU, keep them off there feet...

So after talking with D1en about the number of copies of each he led me to run one less knifed, because early game when I'm checking every ice with Eater barrier are the ones I really don't mind just bouncing off of, I consider that a tempo hit for them...

I've had worse- What's not to like about this card! It lets you play fast and loose...

It's simple, if you think your going to get schorched hold on to 1-2, I'd even say deje Vu for one if you don't have one, but if you don't think that's a treat then draw with it for power turns! Soo good...

Levy- this card resets the deck after 14 turns, it's prob the hardest and most stressful part of playing the deck knowing that you could mill all you ways to bring this back and play it so always keep a recursion card for worse case situations...

Retrieval run- It's so demoralizing to a corp that only ices up R&D and HQ only for you to mill into you Femme, retrieval run it in play and account Syphon them right of the hope... This card is so powerful and I'm glad it's in the deck, it opens up a lot of fun plays and keeps the aggression really high!

Sure gamble- is PB&J

Wanton Distruction- Is the crescendo, wile all your nasty things are working early and forcing the corp to turtle and defend against you this is sitting and waiting to snipe all the juicy agendas that build up in HQ, and with this deck it's completely possible to mill a full hand, and hades shard for the win... And that's the most common win for me (my record is zero to fourteen points in one turn after to 5 card wantons)

Box-E- Is a late game card and helps to offset brain damage, acts as scorch protection and fixes the MU if you need to run more breakers... 8/10 time you won't need it, but the time you do its a life saver...

Hades shard- is your "fuck you" to Jackson! And more often than not the way you'll win your games with this deck

Joshua B.- Does work! It sets up so many great turns and worst case they always trash him, but that's a win for you because this deck leaves the corp with very little resources and time, so for them to trash josh is very VERY taxing and the face they make after you install another is priceless!

Lib account- Just a monster card in this deck, it lets you build econ to ridicules levels but it's also my closed accounts protection, I always leave them with four credits on them to quickly regain after I loose my credits... I know you may be thinking that they will just trash them but again, they don't have the time or resources and if you find them getting a foot hold, just drain them... One of my fav cards in the deck, no question!

Same old thing- this is pretty self explanatory...

Eater- Is the MVP of the deck, man does this mother fucker do work!!! Face check everything as soon as he's out, keep the pressure up by forcing them to make a choice to arbitrary keeping you from accessing but going broke just to do it...

It probably goes without saying but this card makes account syphon, wanton, r run and keyhole work at a level that is unlike any other before it... Eater changed the game!

Femme- his is your swordsman protection and also a sniper for huge ice, I upped it to two last min and I'm so glad I did, I forgot how much I love this card!

Knight- simply for early aggression and could score you a point or two if the corp trys to score behind BS because eater can't get it... They have no place late game, your basic rig is femme, eater and keyhole...

Keyhole- is so painful and scary that once it his the table the corps mind turns into "how do I stop that!?!?" And that give you time to set up all your other plays, and if they don't react to it, TEACH THEM TO RESPECT IT LOL!

Well that's the deck I've been playing and working on for a long time now and I've played it against almost all archetypes, I really feel that there is no good answer to it yet... I know everyone thinks crisium grid will shut it down but if your opponent if running it just chew up all his ice protecting HQ and trash it over and over, and wile he's constantly reacting to you agendas are building up and will be there later...

122 comments
1 Feb 2015 TerminalHope

Deje Ve EP

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@TerminalHope fixed... thanks

1 Feb 2015 TerminalHope

Just giving you a hard time man, congrats on the Store Champs win! Deck looks pretty sick TBF.

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Lmao @TerminalHope its ok man... and thanks!!! it was a great day with only one loss and that was my corp... i was playing my PsiSquid deck, just some great stressful games of netrunner!

1 Feb 2015 trogdor

Sweet. After my store champs yesterday I wish I had had some ice destruction. I still won every game with MaxX, but some took a bit longer. Had one scary game where I milled almost all of my recursion. Thankfully the bottom card was Déjà Vu. So, even though unlikely, it is possible to put yourself in a very bad spot.

This is also not a deck that "plays itself" by any means. Every turn you are making important decisions, choosing the best of a few great options.

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

No doubt @trogdor! the stress levels are high and the room to make high level plays its always there if you put the thought into it...

Shes a mean bitch!

1 Feb 2015 MattJP

I played against a friend using this deck and it was... terrifying. I thought MaxX was just a gimmick, but the draw is real and Anarch resilience is up to the challenge. I was playing my NEARPAD variant (http://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/188580) and if it wasn't for my depth of experience with the deck (and Jackson) I would have been in TROUBLE.

Ultimately MaxX couldn't cope with the server flood the deck generates and recurs; I kept her busy on the remotes, took a few Wantons in the face, but ultimately fast advanced stuff out as it came. Did you play against any horizontal decks? How does MaxX deal with FA? Im a long time Noise lover (Aesops/Djinn/Sahasara is my current joy) but would love to try something new.

1 Feb 2015 Oathwood

What did you play as corp?

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@MattJP I played against 2x NEH FA, Blue sun and an HB:ETF at the tournament but I've tested it against almost all the popular builds and i think NEARPAD is by far the worst match up, that's just a flawless deck and has so may avenues to victory its crazy... but if you hold back on the "Tag'me" style and control the remotes than the corp fears installing agendas making them more susceptible to Wantons, but that's easier said than done lol!

@Oathwood i was playing my PsiSquid Nisei Division: The Next Generation deck (Link at bottom) and it only lost one game the whole day, i was worried that more people were going to be playing all the new anarch toys and it wouldent do as good but i got lucky and didnt see much of it... i love the deck but it falls fast to Keyhole and Wanton Destruction cause I'm so light on ice and i need to hold a lot of combo cards in hand... I think I'll be switching to Industrial Genomics: Growing Solutions for the next tournaments

netrunnerdb.com

1 Feb 2015 trogdor

Funny. My corp was Industrial Genomics: Growing Solutions, which had been strong going into it. But I lost 3 games with it, putting me in 5th. Needs some tweaks, but MaxX is amazing! Nearly unstoppable right now. We'll see what how things change when zither SanSan cycle hits.

1 Feb 2015 akonnick

@SlySquidCongrats! Really happy to see you take MaxX to win a Store Champ (I"m guessing you may be the first). I really appreciated your comments on the cutlery/utensil cards. While I've never really felt like I needed it in most games, I agree that you REALLY wish you had them in the games that go longer. That's the next thing I'm going to test in mine to see how I like. Here's to continuing MaxX's reign at the top and thanks for the post!

1 Feb 2015 17thknight

Love it. I spent all night working on a highly similar deck while at work on paper, but yours looks more elegant (such as taking Morning Stars and Yog's completely out of the picture and just using Femmes. Bold. I like it.)

I'm intrigued by the power of MaxX + events. And no matter how I contorted the deck, no matter what I did on paper or in my head, I always needed the utensils. They are key to it working, I am absolutely convinced of that, and I'm glad you feel that way too and that it worked!

I'm sure others have mentioned Prepaid Voicepad. Did you ever think it might have come in handy or is it just a waste of space?

One thing I could not work around was Knight. I loved Knight with Reina Roja, but I kept thinking it would be too clunky here. I wanted to use it because it fits perfectly with Eater + Keyhole + Wanton Destruction combo. But at the same time, it somewhat hinders my Utensils (or so I was thinking) by either forcing me to waste a click to move it or trash it (in the wrong situation).

As such, I kept trying to work out a way to use D4V1D + Cuj.0 + Corrodor + E3 Implants instead, but it quickly began to feel too full of programs and too clunky, no matter how pared down I made it (including using SMC and just one copy of each program). I just kept coming back to Knight, and I kept thinking it was a compromise more than anything.

Any thoughts at all on Knight? Do you think it's a handicap, essential, or that it's just the best of a lot of mediocre decisions?

1 Feb 2015 trogdor

I think there may be room for D4v1d here. When you've already Femmed something important and they Rez a multiple-advanced Fire Wall or two, it is annoying. Definitely not impossible, but annoying. The cutlery obviously helps, but it is expensive even with all the great Econ + Eater. D4v1d could make quicker work for those situations. I'll likely drop a knight for one. What do you think?

1 Feb 2015 Glitch

This deck is as legit as it comes. I had the misfortune of having him test each iteration of this deck against me, and the misfortune again of playing this in the final round of Store Champs. I played the typical NEH FA and didn't stand a chance. It's brutal at every angle.

1 Feb 2015 akonnick

@SlySquid and @17thknight I agree that I think the cutlery is a better solution than data sucker or scrubbed. Seeing that this deck won without playing either I think is telling. I have now tested with both and actually never used them in either. Seeing this list helps me realize that the faster solution is just to get the utensil card you need, kill with eater and move on with causing mayhem. Thanks again for the great ideas and validation through testing - this is what I love about this site and the netrunner community!

1 Feb 2015 TheTick

I played a MaxX deck the other day, and I'm curious about yours. How do you handle an iced up archives other than hades shard? Some combo of knight and femme or just burn the entire thing down with the cutlery events? Also, do you pretty much go tag me with this? I was laying against a GRNDL tag and bag so I avoided tags like the plague and though I had I've had worse in my deck along with a plascrete ( which I got out early luckily), I never had it in hand as they always got milled.

1 Feb 2015 TonyStellato

Looks awesome, if there's one guy I can trust to make a killer anarch or jinteki deck, it's you!

So, I really wanna try out a variety of this, but there's no way I'm running anarch without Vamp in the deck. So what would you take out for Vamp? Also, what about Utopia Shard? Whenever I tested MaxX, Utopia Shard always did so much work after a Wanton Destruction. The one I was running was a DLR variant of the first deck you posted though, so more trash and tag focused.

Anyway, congrats on the win!

1 Feb 2015 Dydra

OKEY, so obviously the new archetype is Eater+ Utensils + Instead of Access effects ... so ... what's new?

As far as I'm concerned that suit makes any Anarch really strong, Maxx has the obvious of advantage of going through her deck the fastest ...

So is this the new Prepaid Kat?

congratz on the win

1 Feb 2015 Dydra

btw did we get conformation on Steelskin from Lukas?

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@akonnick here here!!!

@17thknight you make great and valid points, knight fits the early aggression that I'm looking for with this deck and also helps to make some troublesome ice redundant, I still like it and my back up and I don't see myself changing it for anything, it really fits the deck...

@TheTick why do I need another option other than Hades Shard? It just works so well =) and if I feel my opponent is tryin to kill me I hold off on the tags till after I have a few I've Had Worse or Wanton Destructioned them... The beauty is it dosent have to play "tag me" it's just better if it does...

@TonyStellato me and you love the same jazz dude! I'd say you could cut one Account Siphon for vamp but that turns off the aggression that I want early, tbh I do t think this deck needs Vamp, mid to late game is all about pulling of Wanton Destruction runs... Thanks, and I hope to play you soon!!!

Wow @Dydra thanks, it's not really differant I just feel that this is the best card combonation you can have with the idea I've been working on, it's PB&J it just works flawlessly and I thought I'd share.... We did, I've Had Worse dose not save you if you only have three cards in hand when your schorched, so just keep a hand of 5 and one or two in your hand and run like a mad man!!!

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@17thknight sorry I forgot to address you're Prepaid VoicePAD question, the answer is yes, I did entertain that idea for a wile but to be honest I don't see a place in this deck for it, but I've never really liked reacuring credit cards... It works in Kate because she wants jazz like that out because he ability works so well with it, but the chaotic nature of makes dosent lend itself to combo plays and I'd rather save my Déjà Vus for the events the self rather than this that make them cheaper, because I really have no money issues at all...

That's not to say it's bad, just not for me =)

1 Feb 2015 rage

@SlySquid any thoughts on adding John Masanori? I'm thinking of running a similar build and with the somewhat guaranteed access of Eater, I'd love to draw a card on my first Keyhole run each turn. Plus the tagging is not really a downside when you're running tag-me Account Siphon and Joshua B.. I could definitely see the extra draw being a .... drawback (rimshot)... though, with the ID firing every turn already and the guarantee of decking yourself after some number of rounds.

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Ya I do @rage, he scares the hell out of me lmao! I feel that constant draw like that is not only not needed, it would be a detrement to the deck... It already burns bright and fast adding that may make your longer games almost unplayable...

I'm not saying you can't but if you do I would recomand finding room for another Levy AR Lab Access, but I don't know what you'd lose other than and Account Siphon... Let me know how testing goes if you try it out!

1 Feb 2015 rage

@SlySquid yeah, I'm still waffling on including him. If I'm focused on Keyhole'ing, I'm not even sure I'll have the 's (or the desire) to play whatever he draws me. In almost every card game I've played, draw = win, but in this particular deck that might be one of the rules I need to unlearn.

1 Feb 2015 mattastrophic

Congrats on the win @SlySquid! I took a deck inspired by the 2.0 version of this deck and won a Store Championship yesterday as well! I'll revise my "derived from" link to point to this version in order to tie the two together.

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Ya @rage I think you hit the nail on the head man!

Wow, thank you and congrats too you too @mattastrophic (fucking love your name btw!!!)

1 Feb 2015 LSK

So now that this has won a store championship - how do you beat it as a corp?

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Lmao that's a great question @LSK... One I don't have an answer too at all...

1 Feb 2015 Sarmatian

Congrats on the win @SlySquid! Did you guys get video of your tournament? I would love to see this mess in action.

1 Feb 2015 siahofmars

so curious , how does this deck fair against crisium grid, once people realize everyone is gonna be playing this new Anarch meta with eater... ?

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@Sarmatian we have three games of me on top table on Duplex's twitch that we are going to upload soon... but you may be able yo check them out there

@siahofmars im going to be 100% honest, Crisium Grid is not a hard counter, its a soft counter at best... first it does not progress the corp towards winning at all, second this deck is built to tilt early aggression to force the corp to always be reacting to you and lastly the cutlery simply chews threw the ice in front of HQ and burns that card down...

its a speed bump at best and the whole point of the deck is to force the corp to make poor plays to build a HQ full of agendas to Wanton Destruction into oblivion... trust me when i say, Crisium Grid is not the way to beat this deck...

1 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@Sarmatian here is the link www.twitch.tv sorry for the lag

1 Feb 2015 trogdor

I think the best "counter" to this deck right now is to have the stars align and sneakily score a Chronos Project at the right time, removing most of the deck and hopefully sniping Levy AR Lab Access in the process.

That's not easy to do when every server, and anything protecting servers, is incredibly vulnerable.

1 Feb 2015 Jashay

@LSK: When I tried running this, it struggled against a Jinteki Hostile Infrastructure deck, but did get a win. It got flat-out murdered by Blue Sun. It did stomp a Cambridge PE deck more efficiently than I've ever seen, though. It was giving an NEH deck a beating, but we had to call the game because of time.

With the HI Jinteki, I couldn't use Keyhole effectively on R&D, Caprice Nisei was a pain on HQ, and Himitsu-Bako was super-annoying at keeping me off of the Assets I needed to trash. Femme tokens and Knight are very temporary things against bouncable ICE. The only thing that got me the win was charging headfirst through a net damage server with two Steelskin in hand.

Same thing with Blue Sun: Femme and Knight were only useable once before being killed on the bounce, so it was trivial to set up a scoring server. Also, Crisium Grid is the bane of this deck if you have to get through more than one or two bits of ICE to get to it. Even with all the recursion, I couldn't trash them fast enough to allow a clear path.

At no point did I ever look like losing the Cambridge match, though. The ICE wasn't big enough to slow me down, and Keyhole tore them to bits. In one turn.

I think the key in both cases where it went badly was an inability to use the main strategies. Trashing stuff is great unless it kills you to do so. Keyhole is great unless it doesn't work. You're meant to be forcing the corp to react to you, and if that fails, you're completely stranded.

Its most obvious general weakness was how hard it was to do anything to remotes with multiple bits of ICE.

But despite that, the deck does feel solid, you know? It has some really powerful plays. Joshua B. and Amped Up for Account Siphon, 5 Keyhole runs and an Archives trip has to be my favourite thing I've ever done in Netrunner

1 Feb 2015 akonnick

@SlySquid Thanks for posting the video.

Look closely, Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center - this is your future...

1 Feb 2015 Sarmatian

@SlySquid quite kind of you sir! Thanks for the follow up. I tried to watch it live yesterday both on my laptop and with my xbox, but it kept dropping and saying twitch was offline. I'm excited to catch up on my matches. I watch these things like some people watch network sports.

2 Feb 2015 17thknight

Uh...I just had a thought. What about Notoriety ? It doesn't require access and would work with Eater.

2 Feb 2015 travisrchance

Looks cool. My sticking point would be the Josh B, Box E, and the Hades Shard.

Sure, the corp trashing Joshua once you are tagged is taxing, but it's just break even at that point on your end, right (you spent the action to gain an action)? Ideally, it sticks around, but in a game where actions are the highest form of currency, I can't imagine that happening often with a corp that knows what they're doing, even if it means spending two credits, despite game state.

I like the purpose Box E serves, but the fact that it is a one off is what is bugging me I suppose. Could this influence be better spent elsewhere?

Same with Hades Shard. It seems like the deck can muscle through where needed, so is dedicating a slot to this that fundamental? With the potential to float tags, it seems like you are gonna be hitting HQ or spending through to play it in most situations. Are you finding this card that fundamental to wins? Or is it merely reinforcing something the deck already CAN do? If so, perhaps this and the Box influence could be spent on something more clutch. Have you considered a copy of planned assault for the cutlery and siphon--obv not stellar with Wanton.

2 Feb 2015 SlySquid

its really no problem @Sarmatian, im just stoked you like my deck so much...

@17thknight lol that just missed the cut im my first build... but it would be sick to know how it works out, build it and let me know man!!!

@travisrchance i see all you pints but i couldn't disagree with you more, the three cards you listed (mostly Hades Shard and Joshua B.) i feel are integral to the deck...

“The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.” ― Aristotle

that should ring so loud with a deck like this that is built to deny you at every turn, even small economic disruptions like Joshua B. become huge strains when tethered to the other draining cards in the deck...

I'd say play it before you just change it, because I've played and tinkered with it a lot and feel its at its peak atm... pulling out key peaces would call for a complete overhaul...

regardless let me know what you find out, i always love being proven wrong and learning from it...

2 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@SlySquid I def see the merits of Hades. Joshua remains one of those cards that I squish up my face and say 'really?' about whenever I watch people play it, take their extra click the next turn, and then watch it die. Sure, if you are up and the corp is down, it is awesome, but we ain't living in an ideal world here :) To me this card says 'Lose 1 credit and a click. You gain 1 click on your next turn and the corp loses 2 credits.' I would not play a card that says this outright, but that's just me. I will give it a shot, but everything inside me tells me my estimation of this card is correct, and the success of it has more to do with a corp player not necessarily grasping the best way to navigate it--and we will be entering a new era of Scorch for sure wherein decks like Titan can muster up 2 Scorch easier than ever before.

So no thoughts on Box alternatives?

Thanks for sharing. Def not trying to be that guy poking for holes. I just am curious.

2 Feb 2015 SlySquid

NO HATE FELT @travisrchance... this is a safe place lol

To correct you though, If I install Joshua B. and pass my turn (runner -1 /-1 ) than it comes back to me now i gain a click and pass (runner +1 ) and the corp trashes him (corp -1 /-2 ) that means i have only lost a cred over there two and a click...

another thing you may not understand is i technically have 6 of him (three copys and the Levy AR Lab Access) and having them consently reacting to something so cheap and easy to play is a huge pacing hit to them and one that will make your Wanton Destruction runs that much more deadly....

I'm defending this card so much because I truly think your underestimating it in conjunction with the deck, and i've played against some high level players that didn't trash him at all because they understand the tempo hit is huge...

i have no suggestion to what the Box-E could be, i love the utility it offers... I suppose Deep Red cold work well...?

sorry if i seem like im sticking to my guns and not offering much help in the way of changing the deck, but i feel it is truly the apex of the concept and core values i was trying to accomplish with the deck, its consistent, aggressive and fun to play and its card for card what i want in a deck...

lol that being said i'm prob just stuck in my ways and love seeing all the other deck out there so i'm looking forward to seeing what you build but i feel with the changes that your suggesting that it will be a totally different path...

2 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@SlySquid Not at all. It's funny bc after I hit send, I realized I didn't mention the click loss for the corp. Still, the net benefit here is exactly that 1 credit and 1 click. I get that you like the card--as do many--but, in my experience as a corp player, I have never been on the receiving end of a Joshua B and felt like 'Wow. This card is nuts.' I don't think most people would play 'Spend 1 the corp loses 2 credits and 1 click' right? Further, once you are tagged, and if that ideal game state isn't up, then you are just spending 1 click and 1 cred to make them lose 1 click and 2 creds--not a hot one if they aint broke.

In terms of the consta taxing, it does seem like the deck can get a draw where you aren't up and running right away. So what do you do if you don't hit Eater or Knight and you are playing against a corp that is walling up? What if they opt to lose an ice to get rid of the Knight and you are sitting there programless. Are you just face checking--dependent on matchup, obv. I am sitting here goldfishing this as we speak and getting some crazy ass openers where I am not hitting any gas until a few turns in--which isn't bad if you are amassing econ, admittedly. In my meta, corps are playing big bucks, so that early game tempo loss often means that I am gonna have to flex until I shit to get through those turns where they are fortifying and I am hoping to draw into a breaker with some way to abuse it.

May valuation of this game is always in this ranking: actions, cards, and then credits. So, when I look at a card like Joshua, I am thinking of the other things I could be doing with that action, those credits, and more importantly the most overlooked price of admission: any card taking up space in your deck.

Still, I have a league night coming up, so I will give this a shot. And, just to repeat, I like the ideas here. I played Exile for a year, did well with it, and had people constantly tell me they couldn't get it to function. That is the beauty of this game: quality of play can trump card quality often.

2 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@travisrchance you sir are very well spoken and i feel we can go round and round so ill just say that if you try it and still don't see a home for it i am stoked to hear what you feel would be replacing him...

Also if i don't see Eater i econ up till i do...

regardless, I loved the debate my friend!!! =)

2 Feb 2015 Glitch

@travisrchance to be fair, you haven't played a corp game against a deck like this. Before O&C came out, I would have 100% agreed with you on Joshua B., I had never seen it be very effective before without the help of Fall Guy. Now, however, the turn that Josh gets used is probably a turn you're getting hit with Wanton Destruction, in which you'll have to spend a turn recovering only to get hit by Account Siphon a couple of times, followed next turn by 5 Keyhole runs. Decks like these put way too much pressure on the corp both financially and in the form of card loss as well. I've sat across the table from this deck way too much, and I will admit that in my first couple of games I trashed it, only to see another one drop from hand or the one I trashed get recurred. After that you just realize how futile it is.

Like Sly said, try this deck out, and I'll add, both playing with and playing against, before deciding Josh isn't worth it, you'll be surprised how much this new type of hyper aggressive deck made older decent cards, into insane cards.

2 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@SlySquid @Glitch Def not trying to dosey-doe, guys :) Just an observation. I will give it a shot as is and see what I am vibing on.

2 Feb 2015 SlySquid

GET HIM @Glitch!!! lol

2 Feb 2015 Glitch

It wasn't an attack, Sly lol. I really hope it didn't come off like that! Just trying to explain differently why the card is so good in this style of deck.

2 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Yay!!!! Lol

2 Feb 2015 NotSlySquid

FUCK HIM UP @Glitch!

2 Feb 2015 echorust

Nice job, Squid! Yeah, I don't think you had the cutlery the night we tested against my NEH deck on jinteki/skype. Had you been disintegrating the ICE over my centrals, I believe I would have lost both those games. Looking forward to giving this build a shot - really love what you've done here!

2 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Lmao! You were the reason I changed it up @echorust... I needed a way to make my runs hurt over a long game count, and I was ready to kill myself with all your Pop-up Windows countering my Scrubbed...

2 Feb 2015 McKindling

@travisrchance I think the idea, having tested Sly's deck since he published it long ago, is that Joshua B isn't in a vaccuum. I'm not repeating what others have said, because other's didn't mention key components, like AS or keyhole.

If you are the corp looking at Joshua B, and if you have less than two credits because of a siphon or a variant vamp, you have a very nasty decision: Click to two (even if you have a beanstalk) and trashing takes two clicks at best, maybe three. You might kill Joshua B, but consequently, you've given the runner another turn at destroying R&D or HQ because you didn't ice it up or put Crisium in it. If you instead defend yourself with crisium or ice, josh survives longer and they've gotten a second click or more out of him which lets the runner keep snowballing.

It's the Super-modernism equivalent for a runner where the runner gives the corp all bad choices.

2 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Very well said @McKindling... Thank you

2 Feb 2015 whuppo

I read everything in here what the fuck.

Sorry for being rude, but.. this fast Maxx Keyhole deck reminds me of hot analsex porn lol.

2 Feb 2015 whuppo

Congrats for the win, Aesop Rock!

2 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@whuppo thanks...? Lmao

3 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@SlySquid Alrighty, I took this to league tonight and played 7 matches--losing only 1. In 4 of the matches, the corp did not score a single point. The 1 loss I had was to a dude going turn 2 astro, turn 3 astro. I had no Siphon, no Keyhole, no gas really. I see he had a Fast track, so I Wanton him for 5. I did it again for 3, killing a second fast track. He rips Astro with 2 bucks. His next draw? Of course, Breaking News :P

What I learned:

1.) The deck applies pressure based off the draws obv. 5 of my matches went looooooong. Like, corp almost getting decked long. Was part of this still sussing out the deck? Sure. In one of these games, every single econ card was milled (not joking, all 3 Gambles, all 3 Day Jobs, all 3 Lib Accounts). In another, I could not find a breaker beyond a sole Femme. Still, the deck can zig and zag, which is def my style--I was the guy who won the Plugged-In with the weird Exile deck awhile back (so versatility and flexibility is my wheelhouse).

2.) I was wrong about Hades Shard. It def won me two games, and I wanted it a few other times--once grinding my hand completely out in order to play it.

3.) Get the paddles for this dead horse. Joshua B made for a single good Wanton run, and that was it. He gave me back what I put in, he cost the corp a click and 2 credits, and at no point was this a high pressure situation. I am sure you are thinking 'then you played it wrong.' Well, 3 other people played your exact list, and, of the four of us, only one said they managed to make Joshua do anything more than the above--in a single game, I might add. At no point, ever, did I wish I had the card beyond the aforementioned situation. When I played against the deck, with Joshua in play, it never put me in a high pressure scenario: I gladly paid my 2, clicked to kill it, and continued on as though it were a minor inconvenience. We don't have to bicker on this one, I am just letting you know, I played it, I looked for the optimal windows to exploit it, and it was spend a click today to have a 5th click tomorrow.

It is worth mentioning, my meta is econ obsessed, so this might have played some small part in not creating that ideal situation of 'spend 2 and a click to stay poor.'

4.) Box-E. I dunno what the hell I wanna drop this for, but I wanna drop it. I did play it once against a Jinteki deck that was threatening Ronin + EMP, but I keyholed/siphoned the shit out of them so it didn't matter much. Part of me wonders, would a 3rd Femme be that crazy? At so many points I had the money up to exploit it. It also makes hitting it with the Retrieval Run a tad higher probability?

5.) Beyond the 4 of us playing your list, a couple others brought Maxx. One in particular was wrecking my world with a single copy of Singularity (see what I did there). I have to be honest and say I wasn't using the cutlery so much. I wonder if there is a home for a one-off of this--perhaps in place of the DREADED JOSHUA B?!?!?!? (Heh.) It seemed an effective tool in this particular match up.

6.) @SlySquid: you were right: Crisium Grid does nothing to little in the way of stopping the freight train. I had it played against me 3 times and it never mattered a single time.

I feel I have tormented you enough at this juncture. Thanks for sharing the list, the musings, and a fun new deck with which to wreak havoc.

3 Feb 2015 IonFox

I currently play this deck too. My only changes were to drop box e and a single josh b for 2 spinal modems, as my meta has literally 0 trace decks, apart from the occasional ash.

3 Feb 2015 jawZ

@travisrchance

3) I also think that the Remotethreat is missing in this version and that some corps will try to score fast points here. I'm not sure if Knight and the cutlery can handle this possible problem, but I'm not experienced with this deck at all.

4) You could try Net Celeb maybe, I dunno

5) I'm also not really sold on the cutlery. Knifed is great to kill Bioroid shit like Eli even without a breaker, but otherwise I'm not totally into this right now.

6) Can you elaborate this, I'm really curious

3 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@jawZ I didn't find the cutlery to be that necessary very often in those 7 matches, in truth, but the times I used it, it mattered. I Part of me feels like you could play 1 of each, but with only 7 matches in, I dunno.

4.) Hmm. I would want more redundancy or something with a big higher variance--which is obv not easy at 1 inf.

5.) The two people that played Singularity made some epic swings with it. It's just another way to abuse Eater--not the best on the back of SoT though :/

6.) It's simple. I just made sure to muscle through with a Knight and not use Eater or other shenanigans. I paid to trash it. Worked out that way in each of the aforementioned situations.

I should also mention, my meta is currently re-obsessed with flatline based strats: Blue Sun Scorch, tons of Jinteki, etc. This made the pace of the game a tad more deliberate, which def added time to the games. I never felt at risk of being killed--I just sandbagged I've Had Worse and made sure I didn't over-extend.

3 Feb 2015 AkAnderson

I see that you and @cdrock both run 47 cards. I'm assuming I missed the forum or discussion on why that is. Is it just because you draw so much?

3 Feb 2015 trogdor

@AkAnderson A 5 card opening hand leave you with 42 cards, which is divisible by 3 and equals 14 turns.

3 Feb 2015 McKindling

45 has less variance and will always be better, but because of her insane drawing ability, if you just can't squeeze down to 45 because you want to include more cards, having 47 with MaxX doesn't hurt nearly as bad as other ID's . . . unless you're relying upon strong opening hand combinations, which having a retrieval run, AS, or dayjob turn one is, so maybe 45 would work better.

3 Feb 2015 AkAnderson

@trogdor ah, gotcha. Does that mean then that you can't click to draw? I see the reasoning and idea behind it but it feels a little loose.

3 Feb 2015 McKindling

It's very loose and bad logic. You should be drawing with I've Had Worse or with inject. It increases the chance that you won't have to recur cards but instead will get them.

3 Feb 2015 rage

@McKindling its certainly true that 45 is more consistent statistically than 47 BUT I think the real point is that it gives you one more turn before you HAVE to Levy AR Lab Access. I won't argue that 47 is better than 45, but looking at this decklist and having played it a few times, I'd be hard pressed to name which 2 cards I'd cut.

Also as to the Josh B debate: I'm really not sure here. Somehow after a handful of games I've managed to mill every copy of him every single time through my deck and so I've never had an opportunity to install him. That being said, there were definitely situations where I would have loved an extra click and it SEEMED as though the game as in a state where my opponent would NOT have trashed him immediately (eg Femme on single-iced R&D with Keyhole installed or no ice on HQ and the threat of Account Siphon) I can't say for SURE that my opponent wouldn't have trashed, but it seems pretty likely.

@SlySquid still tinkering with John Masanori but I'm leaning towards thinking he's not needed. The conclusion you appear to have already reached :)

3 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@rage but I was only speculating, I'm glad you put in the work trying him out... And thanks for the update =)

3 Feb 2015 Glitch

@rage 45 is only more consistent than 47 with other runner IDs. With Maxx, as soon as her ability triggers on the runner's first turn she's actually ahead of every runner except Andromeda (in which case you have to wait until turn 2).

@AkAnderson I've watched SlySquid pilot this deck since the spoilers were released and can't recall a time that he actually needed to click to draw at all. It's not that you can't click to draw, there's just never really a need to.

3 Feb 2015 McKindling

Glitch, respectfully, you're wrong. I understand that you have 41 cards left in your deck, 6 to work with, and 2 in the heap to potentially work with via recursion, but the math doesn't change. 45 is more consistent than 47. The effect is minimal because of MaxX's extreme draw, but it's still a dent. If you still disagree check out the MaxX thread on stimhack.com

That being said, most every deck I've constructed with MaxX has 47-49 cards because the effect is more minimal, but if you're counting on getting a femme, morningstar, w/e out of the heap with retrieval by turn 2, 45 cards will increase that chance.

3 Feb 2015 McKindling

Excuse me, that example was with 49 cards. With 47, after ability, 2 in heap, 6 in hand, and 39 in stack.

3 Feb 2015 Glitch

@McKindling I re-read how I had posted my point and I realize I wasn't clear in my meaning. What I was trying to get across wasn't that 47 cards is as equally as consistent for Maxx as 45, but rather that Maxx at 47 cards is still more consistent than every other runner ID except for Andromeda on the first turn.

In regards to the thread on Stimhack, that thing has an estimated read time of 2 1/2 hours! Ain't nobody got time for that! :p

4 Feb 2015 PaxCecilia

@travisrchance One influence you say? High variance you say?

Try out Utopia Shard. Trash two random cards from HQ at paid ability speed. Helps protect against operation combos, flatline, saves clicks on Wanton Destruction... Plus my favourite trick. If they've been spending a turn or two digging through their deck with Jackson Howard: pop it, run Archives, and run HQ. If you don't hit at least one Agenda then you know all their points are in R&D still.

It's my go-to "14/15 influence oh my god what can I put in" card.

4 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@PaxCecilia I have been considering this. Thanks for reinforcing the idea. I did use Box-E in one match, but moreso bc I had no dang idea what my opponent was playing. I suppose it is good in the Cambridge PE match, or any deck leaning on Ronin, but I think you can play around this--don't play Amped Up in this match more than likely. I don't feel like it needs a console. I mean, something like Spinal Modem can be equitable over the long run, but as a one-off, meh. Deep Red may give back some click efficiency, but, again, tempo. I get that Box-E is there as an edge case. I dunno. I feel like play choice can correct this.

I dropped the Joshua B's for 2 Singularity and 1 D4v1d for the time being.

Singularity def gives Eater a little more reach when the corp tries to hole up and score out of a remote in a desperation. 1 may be enough.

I am wondering if 1 Amped Up is also enough. I am an aggressive runner, but I have to say, I lost Wanton twice on the brain damage, making it lower impact--granted, one time I just Keyhole'd like a thug instead. It has its place, kinda like playing 1 Stim Hack.

I like D4V1D for Blue Sun when they play their OAI on Curtain Wall. It has proven decent in making Knifed a little scarier on annoying stuff like Wraparound as well so far.

4 Feb 2015 HipsterWannabe

I just wanted to come here and mention that 4 or 5 of our group of 7 last night were testing this deck, or one just like it (and a Reina deck that was similar as well), and I don't think anyone lost with it. It makes me a little worried how corps can plan to win against the Eater + Keyhole combo. I have tossed in Swordsman and Crisium Grid into my Keystone deck, but I know how I would play against it with MaxX and I don't think it will slow her down at all.

All I can think is a Curtain Wall on R&D, but that won't last long. Any ideas?

4 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@HipsterWannabe I think Chronos Project will be a nice tool against them looping and abusing their heap. I don't feel Crisium does much at all against a remotely smart runner. Swordsman will be good. Wraparound will be annoying.

4 Feb 2015 HipsterWannabe

@travisrchance I forgot to mention Chronos Project, but I have already added that to my deck as well. I just can't believe how strong Keyhole is with Eater now.

4 Feb 2015 Thatguyyouknow

I tried piloting this deck against a Blue Sun yesterday and I ran into some big issues. Early game was great. Early Keyhole and Eater. Trash some important cards and grab a 3 point agenda.

It wasnt until mid game, that my opponent started picking up some steam. He immediately walled up archives, preventing me from successfully retrieving some much needed programs from my heap with Retrieval Run. And due some some really poor luck, most of my recursions and cash generating cards were discarded early on.

This left me clinging to a single Déjà Vu and Quality Time as I tried to draw up what I needed. This stalled the game immensely for me, which allowed the corp to triple wall up R&D with some heavy ice. Even worse, when I thought I started to break through, Crisium Grid just locked me out completely and I had no idea what to do at this point.

Popped Levy, recycled my deck and hoped for better draws. At this point when I finally did get Femme Fatale and Knight up, they were pointless.

I spent the rest of the game trying to get out the cutlery and cash needed to start breaking my way through R&D and HQ. It taxed him pretty heavy trying to keep me out for so long, but it only stalled the game. With Off the Grid , it was an inevitable loss.

I never felt like I could get some of the big combos out like Wanton + Amped. Chalk this up to some bad luck and just the fact I am a very new player. I guess I dont fully understand how to manage this deck quite yet.

4 Feb 2015 Aazuel

@SlySquid I just tried this out in Stockholm. Only one game, which I won against Tennin Institute: The Secrets Within, but I loved it! Joshua pulled his part and then some; the only snag was that I had to trash all of my hand to a Komainu before I got Eater up and couldn't afford the Knight, but that could happen to any deck I guess. An issue was that I had to trash a lot of the econ though, but as soon as I landed a Day Job, all my money problems vanished (I just which it were the same in real life :P).

Coming from Shaper with a complete rig set up waaay before even thinking about running, I was at first a bit hesitant to throw away a lot of my cards each turn with MaxX: Maximum Punk Rock ability, but realising the potential of this, with no card draw cards required and no Plascrete Carapace requirement due to I've Had Worse, the deck felt slimmed and fast. In conclusion, I loved it! Thanks

4 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Thanks @Aazuel! Glad you had fun =)

6 Feb 2015 Myriad

Blue Sun remains probably one of the best match-ups against this deck. Crisium, Curtain Wall, kill your Knights and bounce femme targets really will put the boots to what this deck is trying to do.

Its not unwinnable, but it is a tough match up for the archetype. I also feel like RP is a tough match up for eater/keyhole/siphon decks.

I adapted my deck slightly by throwing cards like datasucker, parasite and spooned in to help me alleviate some of the problems. Spooned lets you thrash Lotus pretty easy. Parasucker lets you kill most of your nemesis' out of RP (Tsrugi, Pup and Komainu).

Blue Sun is probably the corp I dread seeing across from me the most right now. Curtain Wall is just bad news.

7 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@Myriad I didn't experience this at all with the deck. I agree with the OP that Crisium does nothing but cost you some trash creds once you suss it out. I added a single D4v1d to combat OAI Curtain wall--which is a pain, admittedly. With the expensive ice, many of which you simply bounce off of, knowing when to facecheck can keep them off their advantage. Obv the cutlery can help as well with the Blue Sun advantage. Def not my fav matchup, but I think NBN remains the worst.

7 Feb 2015 Myriad

@Travis - I don't have a ton of experience vs NEH locally or are you talking Tagstorm as this deck is definitely "tag me".

Clot should do something to help alleviate this, although I am not sure what you would trade out for it.

People liking Knight still? I am not such a fan of it in this build.

7 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@Myriad The combination of having to try and get through a remote that can be two deep only to hit an econ asset or Sansan can be annoying and expensive. Eater obv doesn't excel in this, which is why I think the deck benefits from Singularity. All they have to do is score 1 Astro, as we all know, and it can just be downhill from there.

I think Knight serves three functions:

1.) gets them to trash their ice 2.) let's you push through Siphon early 3.) gives you some accessibility to remotes, unlike Eater

7 Feb 2015 Myriad

@Travisrchance I understand the function, but I rarely have a problem finding Eater, but I also pack x2 inject in my deck in addition to between 2 and 3 I've had Worse.

I suppose I could cut the injects in my deck and one other card to try Knight, but I really wonder how useful it would be in the build, especially if I am already packing singularity.

8 Feb 2015 travisrchance

Well, I played in a 22 person store champs today with my iteration of this deck and took second--I conceded in the finals bc I was late for other plans after 5 rounds and cut to top 8--I do feel like I was a dog with MaxX in this match, to be fair. I lost 2 games with MaxX on the day. My edits were:

-1 Amped Up -3 Joshua B. +1 D4v1d +1 Wanton +2 Singularity

The first loss was against the fella I would have played in the finals who played NEH like a boss. I opened on a mulligan with Eater, Keyhole, Sure Gamble, Knight, and one of the cutlery (I think the sentry one). I could have dropped the eater and keyhole, but then what. I have 1 credit, he sees where this is headed, so I played for the long game--and it was looooooong. A Crisium Grid managed to shut me out on Siphons and Wantons--I went up to 3.

The second one I dropped was to a Blue Sun match. This time I got the weird all money and no breakers opener. It took me forever to get going and I just could never hit an agenda on Keyhole--I think I hit 1 on 5ish runs?

In the semi-finals I decked a Jinteki Genomics deck. This was a grueling match which absolutely confirmed Singularity has a place in this deck. I was put in a situation where I lose or I lose by running it regular style. Singularity just gives you one more way to abuse Eater.

Having now played this deck more, these are my musings:

1.) Joshua B is not necessary at all. At no point did I wish I had him. I do not think he is needed for Wanton for Wanton to be ridic. I stand my ground on this front: I do not think Joshua B qualifies as worthy in a deck like this, esp. now that people have had a few weeks to get used to the deck.

2.) While the deck can open with very frontloaded draws, I do think it is a thing and not just a gimmick. One person pointed out, the deck sort of plays itself. And while I don't necessarily agree with that statement outright, I do think that the corp can predict accurately what your plan of attack will be. It is the severity and intensity of that attack that matters. So, in short, I think an average player can do well with this, but I think a good player will do great with it.

3.) I played numerous damage decks and Box-E never hit the table once. I never had MU problems. This influence should just be a Utopia Shard. It is another Eater abuser and reinforces the strengths of the deck.

4.) The money in this can be wonky as hell. It is expensive to maintain aggression against a smart corp who knows how to layer R&D and HQ in such a way that you are stopping to regroup, wherein scoring windows open up. This is why Singularity is necessary--albeit expensive itself. The second match I lost, I was 1 credit away from stopping his final point and, in turn, establishing a stranglehold on the game. I felt this way in the Genomics match also.

I did not play Liberated Accounts too many times, as they were often milled. Part of me wonders if the more accessible Armitage would be better. If you cannot land Siphons, staying in the money can be arduous. This would be one of the inconsistencies I would like to address. I think it simply lies in the barrier of entry to Lib Accounts. Yes, it yields more, but at the cost of tempo. You really want to maintain aggression as much as possible. I am not sure what to recommend here, as the options are so shallow for econ, esp. in resource form.

5.) I find the cutlery entirely underwhelming. Once again, unless I am hitting a key piece of ice, it just felt like I would spend a near equivalent to temporarily remove an obstacle as if I just paid through it with Eater. I like a single copy of each, but I certainly do not feel that 5 is warranted. Also, Knifed working against Eli, which is a pain in the ass against this the same as most decks, by clicking to break is great. If anything, I would prefer 2 Knifed.

6.) As far as hate for this deck, I would just recommend this whole 'I am so playing Swordsman' nonsense just stop. It doesn't stop the deck. It may cause a hiccup, but it pretty meh. Wraparound is just a better annoyance (obv not so much for Knight). Pop-up are annoying. Eli puts you to tough decisions, as clicking through is often a cheaper conversion than paying.

Crisium Grid did finally stick one in my on two occasions today. Interestingly, the two matches I lost with MaxX were both when Crisium was on HQ, shutting down my Wantons and Siphons. I think this is a much better stopper-blocker than Swordsman against the deck. And it is all about timing--I ran into a Pop-Up putting me on 4 credits in the NEH match which stopped my one window to kill it.

7.) I realized I played at league without Spooned. And I can confirm that I wish I was at a leaner 45 cards. Drawing those damn cutlery over and over instead of money, recursion, or programs felt like a bummer almost every time. I ended up drawing by way of I've Had Worse getting nailed on damage, by intentionally drawing up so I could discard a Femme for Retrieval Run, OR to get deeper into the deck. I actually decked myself with no way to Levy in round 3 and still won against RP.

Anyway, rambling. Not trying to challenge the OP here; I am just saying this deck has room for tailoring.

Thanks for reading!

In closing, I def appreciate @SlySquid sharing the list. I believe three people played revised versions of it--none of which played Joshua B (I will never let this go, sorry). Myself and one other player who piloted their version made Top 8. I played my Jinteki Dead You deck for corp which I have played for about a year and a half, and ended up an even amount of losses with it--and I know how the hell to play the crap out of this thing--so that says a lot about MaxX.

8 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Congrats @travisrchance! Thanks for the insight man, loved the write up and I feel a lot of people can learn from you:.. Thanks again for the love also

8 Feb 2015 MTUCache

So, to go along with the Joshua B. discussion, and assuming you're going to just put up with being tagged for some portion of the game, why not go with a Data Leak Reversal angle to complement your Wantons? Or is the fear of getting decked by this card going to guarantee the Corp trashes it after a single use?

8 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@MTUCache My experience with the deck is not the same description as @SlySquids: since people have had more time to prepare for MaxX, noneo f my games were really the stranglehold he was describing. Instead, the deck felt like it was make critical strikes every once in awhile. I encountered the same thing that I encountered in my first 7 games: corps with a lot of econ, wherein Siphon did not leave them broke, but rather played more like an econ card--when it worked, that is.

This is why Joshua doesn't really work in my opinion--esp. now that people know what MaxX does typically. They do as I speculated: they gladly trash it, not impacting their much, if at all. To this end, DLR would be equally as disappointing I fear. In something like Noise, where you are just munching their deck incidentally, I like DLR (although Gravedigger seems like a strict upgrade now). I feel confident, with Keyhole being your primary means to win, they you will get 2 mills off of it and then they will just kill it. Further, it is hard to end up tagged when they Crisium up, so it could just be a dead ass draw. I could see giving it a try, as it sorta reinforces Keyhole kinda--Keyhole is more about quality than quantity.

10 Feb 2015 DavyRam

I'm pretty sure that if I ever find myself before the pearly gates, my audience with St. Peter will end something like this...

"Well sir, we've gone through most of your record and, while not perfect, things are looking mostly good. Just a few minor things to go over, but there shouldn't be anything - hold on. It says here that, as a supposedly responsible adult, you did knowingly netdeck Slysquid's Maxx deck, and knowing full well what you were doing, did willingly subject innocent strangers to its myriad and wanton cruelties. IS THIS TRUE SIR?!

"Yes.. but, but I was just testing it! I swear I was testing it!"

"You sick * * * *." (Pulls lever, opening a trapdoor. There is a cry, and the sound of falling, which fades away. Peter shakes his head and goes back to his work)

12 Feb 2015 travisrchance

I took the time to write up a revised list after placing 2nd with a deck based off @SlySquid's build. You can check it out here:

netrunnerdb.com

14 Feb 2015 Dixie_Flatline

Hi Sly, I've been playing this deck for a week now, and I absolutely love it. It's a very neat concept you've got here, and it's fun as hell to play. My only question is: Does Joshua B REALLY work? REALLY REALLY? For the life of me I can't get it to work. It seems to always be too little too late or not useful at all. I figured linking it with wanton and/or amped up was the ideal play, but it seems amped up always ends up being the play that I go for, with Joshua B not available or not useful. Thoughts? Again, thanks for a fun deck.

14 Feb 2015 siahofmars

Joshua B is probably working without you even knowing it. What Joshua b is for is to install one turn for 1 credit and click... Then next turn u get a free extra click back so u can make plays with keyhole or wanton that need an extra click for goodness. After that the corp trashes it for 2 of their creds and a click which slows them down. Think about all the other things they probably wanted to do with their 2 creds and a click. If not then worse case u still benefited in the smallest way possible just by riding them of 2 creds and a click for your 1 credit and a click. As we all know 1 credit in this game can mean win or lose.

14 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@siahofmars Not to be rude, but reading the cost and text of the card doesn't change my opinion--also, I stated that it did exactly what you pointed out a few times now to show I am using objectivity. The issue isn't what Joshua does, it's what he doesn't do, and how continuing to posit about the unlikely scenario that the corp is entirely broke, you have no tags upon install, and that the corp will turn to ash by trashing it is generally avoiding the reality of a card like this. Yes, you can probably kill a yeti with a machete. Now, please, just go find me a yeti and prove it.

14 Feb 2015 siahofmars

All I was saying is Joshua b is a small thing in the deck . sometimes its better than others . anytime u add another decision for the corp to make especially for cheap is worth it to me. I never said anything about the unlikely scenario of them being broke. I dunno just don't use him if you don't like him. He does what he does. Splash vamp or something and drain corp of creds and then install JB . your unlikely scenario is now likely ...

14 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@siahofmars Not trying to be a dick here. I am sure you didn't mean for your reply to come across as pandering, but you literally just read the cost and text on the card, which I have commented ad naseum. I can only assume that in doing so, you thought I was unaware of what the card did?

My point is this is not a decision for the corp to make. Trashing Joshua is always right. It is very binary. There is much talk of how the corp will be broke when Joshua is out and have to click twice to and then go broke again to trash him. This is rarely, if ever, the case. Your description here is simply parity: you are up 1 credit in this scenario if tagged. As far as this impacting the game, I consider this to be low impact and pretty counter-productive. I do not expect you, or anyone else to subscribe to my dogma on this card. But I certainly don't think reading me the text in any way contributes to the conversation here.

14 Feb 2015 LSK

@travisrchance Here's the hard decisions the corp has to make when you have Joshua B out:

  • At the start of the game, using Joshua B means the corp has to decide between trashing Joshua B and setting up. Trashing Joshua B gives you a few extra clicks to poke around in that case.

  • If the corp is about to score an agenda, they have to decide between trashing Joshua B and scoring the agenda. Trashing Joshua B gives you an extra turn in that case.

  • If you're far enough ahead economically, playing Joshua B forces the corp to decide between trashing Joshua B and accumulating enough money to rez ice. Trashing Joshua B gives you several extra accesses (or Keyholes!) in that case.

These all happened to me at the Store Championships I won with MaxX - they're relatively common scenarios, and the fact that they can be enabled with a single-credit investment is pretty exciting.

14 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@LSK You make a sound point on the second bullet. The first one is relatively vague--'setting up' entails what exactly?

Like I said, I tried the card and it made 1 Wanton run good. Not to toot my own horn, but I made it to the finals with a MAxX deck without Joshua (I conceded as I was very late to a previous engagement), not to count doing well in a number of other high level events. Why does this matter? In some of these events, I have had Joshua played against me as the corp and no point, not once, ever, did he feel like pressure. I have seen it played in league, again, no pressure. I have playtested against decks that use it: no pressure. I do not equate this to skill or magical powers. I chalk it up to the card just not being very good and very easy to play around. You play it and the corp determines its value, not you.

I will not stop twitching about this card. Please, enjoy Joshua. It's Valentine's Day after all. :)

14 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@SlySquid On another subject ;), I was curious, how many people were at the event you won. I can't remember if you had mentioned it.

@LSK, same question.

Seems like this thread has spawned a MaxX-olution.

14 Feb 2015 LSK

~20 people. My writeup is here: netrunnerdb.com

14 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@LSK Thanks and congrats. I love the single Corroder. I am considering this, as I rank Wraparound as a massive pain in the ass.

(Now, a dumb question: how do you hyperlink your deck again?)

14 Feb 2015 siahofmars

What lsk said is what I mean with Joshua B and how he can affect the game... I just don't have the patience nor grace he does for the explenation

14 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@travisrchance it was a small one, only 11...

Tell me about it, I can't be leave the tread this has spawned!!!

You have a lot to do with it, let's keep the convo hot!!!

15 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@SlySquid Yowza, only 11. Not saying this invalidates the deck, as clearly it doesn't, but I def think it helps to make mention of this when touting performance. It helps to give perspective. I basically stopped posting/sharing deck stuff in part due to people's habit of "my deck is unbeatable; I beat my grandpa who only has a core set three times last night!" People love to do what I call vacuum-speak. I am lucky to have a somewhat constant league to attend that has 16-22 dudes regularly without fail. I try and put decks through their paces before I start commenting on their performance, and even then, I take into account who I play, their skill level and whether they have access to all the cards, etc. It really does no one any good otherwise, right.

But yeah, Joshua B. is honestly an exceedingly mediocre card ;)

15 Feb 2015 SlySquid

@travisrchance to be honest I don't like you passive aggressive remarks, I've played this deck more times than just this store champs and never boasted about it being more than the best deck I've made... If you don't like it or my choices build a better one and defend it, you need to remember I've but myself out publicly and people that like me and what I drop like and aski me to share my thoughts, ideas and opinions... And that's what I do...

I'm sorry if I'm miss reading your tone but I'm not going to respond to any further unconstructive coments from here on out, make the changes you feel I should and defend them on your own post please, I love my deck and stand behind it regardless how you feel...

15 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@SlySquid whoa. No passive aggressive comments intended. It was more of a general comment on NR at large--certainly a lot of the deck chat on BGG felt this way back when I used to post and read threads there. We see a lot of 'undefeated' and 'winner of X' titles on decks and in their descriptions, but not a thorough inventory of details concerning how many people, how many times, etc. I have found you to be quite charming and fun in this whole thread, so sorry if it read otherwise--I pride myself on being 'aggressive aggressive' so clearly something came across the wire. ;) Clearly I like the deck enough to take the time to comment, to have tried it card for card, and to work with the fundamental idea.

The Joshua B. outro on my last reply was a call back to the chatter I was having with @LSK and @siahofmars, not an attack on you. When I first saw MaxX, a friend asked what I thought, and I said not much. This deck made me eat my hat. And besides, even if the poking about Josh was intentional, unless you designed it, there isn't a reason to get mad. It's just a card, one of many in your list and others.

Hope this helps and, again, no offense intended.

15 Feb 2015 SlySquid

It does, thank you @travisrchance...

Sorry for miss interpreting your comment, it's been a long week and maybe I was in a negative place when I read it, and for that again in sorry...

I hope we can move forward with no hard feelings!

15 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@SlySquid Not at all. I was trying to poke fun at how I have been ranting against Joshua B., not mock you or anyone else :)

15 Feb 2015 Garbo

@SlySquid Thanks for putting this out there and encouraging all the discussion. I've played this deck a bunch of times now and it's a really solid shell, and definitely not a build I would have put together on my own.

15 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Wow thanks @Garbo, I loved how you called it a shell =) because I love seeing all the tweaks people are making!

16 Feb 2015 Dixie_Flatline

Sly, just to be clear, I wasn't trying to pile on or anything with my Joshua B question. I was just wondering if I was doing something wrong. This deck is extremely fun, I just wasn't getting as much use out of JB as I'd hoped, but I suspect I was doing something wrong, lol

16 Feb 2015 SlySquid

Lol it's all good @Dixie_Flatline, I don't care about that convo, it was more the comment about how small the SC I won and how it somehow makes the deck less good...

My stance on Joshua B. is still firm, I love him but maybe I'm just in the type of meta that's of the mindset that it's not worth trashing, making it more of a solid choice for me...

16 Feb 2015 travisrchance

@SlySquid I never said it made the deck any less good. I literally said 'Not saying this invalidates the deck, as clearly it doesn't, but I def think it helps to make mention of this when touting performance.' Just wanted to point this out.

23 Feb 2015 Blueboy57

@SlySquidSo first off I'm new to this game, as in I've had the core set for 2 weeks and haven't actually played a game. I have however been reading up like crazy.

I'm just curious if this would be a good deck to learn on or if there is such a thing as a "learning deck"? I have a bad habit of falling for cards based on their looks or characters not what they actually do and I fell for MaxX: Maximum Punk Rock instantly lol. I made a point of getting O&C and as many packs with the cards on this list as I could but I'm still about 10 short as of this writing.

And probably another noob question but can Hades Shard be installed as a result of Retrieval Run? It looks like it can but didn't know if I was missing something. Sorry if I missed the explanation, but I promise I read the entire comment thread lol. Thanks for making a cool MaxX deck :)

23 Feb 2015 LSK

@Blueboy57 Once you're familiar with the game, you should learn on a standard Andromeda deck.

You can install Hades Shard off Retrieval Run, but then you don't get to get a card back, because you can only replace accessing cards once.

23 Feb 2015 Blueboy57

@LSK Awesome. I had planned on making an Andromeda deck so I picked up Humanity's Shadow too.

Ok well that's good to know. I assumed you could do both. Then I guess it would be kind of counter productive to use that method because it would be wasting Retrieval Run whose whole job is to pull stuff out of your heap.

Thanks for the help

28 Feb 2015 ibrahack

Hi there! This deck looks great. What can I use to replace the Déjà Vu copy I'm missing? I'm only own one core :S

Thanks for your help!

8 Apr 2015 LivingNightmare

Sly i copied your deck and changed it a bit for my meta. I could post the decklist here for you to see but i don't think if it would be appropriate. This deck rocks. Keep making decks like this one.

8 Apr 2015 SlySquid

@LivingNightmare glade you like it! I'm still playing it card for card, just crushing everyone I meet lol

I'd love to see the list, and if you want to give me a little credit just make this deck an "insperation" for yours...

1 Jul 2015 Narbalicious

Hey Sly, How does your deck deal with Blacklist? Is this possibility any reason to use Singularity? I feel like Blacklist is a hard counter to MaxX most of the time. Awesome Deck!

1 Jul 2015 SlySquid

Ahoy hoy @Narbalicious, yeah that card is a pain but I haven't played against it enough to warrant a change yet but I have opened two "floater" slots in the deck for Hacktivist Meeting but they could just as easily be replaced by singularity, anywho I dropped a knight and amped up for the room...

Try that out and let me know how it do!

Thanks for the coment and im glad your into my deck... Cheers

25 Oct 2015 ta2d2

Baller

25 Oct 2015 SlySquid

Lol thanks @ta2d2!

Check out the new updated version with San San