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Standard Ban List 23.09 (latest) |
Standard Ban List 23.08 (active) |
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Through the Keyhole 1.5 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
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Through the Keyhole 2.5 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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I took out kati and pawns for SoT and dirty laundry. Kati was just too click intensive and I often want to be running so dirty laundry worked better. Quality time over lawyer up, 1c more but 2 cards extra without the second click and you can SoT it easier if you have too. Im not in the habit of going tag me so lawyer up was an "obvious" choice that i finally realized was just not worth it. Pawns were slowing me down, there may be a spot for the Scheherezade money trick from homeless Kasparov but I'm not seeing how at the moment.
11 comments |
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18 Jan 2014
apo
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18 Jan 2014
wilk
The economy seems a tad too weak to me (I have recently been playing a lot of Whizzard and Reina) - maybe it's a question of style, not to mention that I probably am a weaker player than you, but I would ditch Armitage Codebusting (too click intensive for this kind of build, I think Liberated Account would be better if you want this kind of economy), SoT also seems debatable (Siphon recursion is nice, but are 3 slots worth it? Running SoT you also commit to the Tag-me playstyle, which I think will be more and more problematic with the evolving meta. I think that SoT makes Lawyer Up better than Quality Time, as it's cheaper than removing 2 tags and you get 3 cards. All in all, I would go either:
or: -3 Armitage Codebusting, +3 Liberated Account -3 Same Old Thing, +3 Daily Casts Just my 2 cents. |
18 Jan 2014
HepatitvsJ
I generally don't play tag me. So I have almost no experience with it. I do think daily casts is a good inclusion though. Armitage in generally for big money gains but I think the drip and run economy is better for continued aggression. After the last couple of tournaments I will never discount the effectiveness of acct siphon/SoT. Keeping the corp too poor to rez is just too powerful. I think I am going to go with -3 quality time for the +3 lawyer up. Even with SoT it's usually going to be worth it. I really need to get some more play testing time though. I think I'm going to drop djinn for something else. Probably 2 yog and drop the crypsis for a 3rd deja vu. Thanks for the comments. :) |
18 Jan 2014
wilk
Yeah, I've done some testing and Crypsis is pretty horrible in this deck. :) Costs 5, which can be an issue and then breaking with it is both expensive and click-intensive. In my current build I went: -3 Quality Time, +3 Lawyer Up, -3 Armitage Codebusting, +3 Daily Casts , -1 Plascrete Carapace, -1 Crypsis, +2 Yog.0, -2 Djinn, +2 Liberated Account (works well, usually preparing for some big attack). I'm thinking of replacing the full breaker suite with 3 Knights and 3 Darwins, but this would cause some vulnerability to Swordsman and probably require the addition of Surges in order to be effective (today I played a Reina build with this exact set of breakers at a tournament, the deck sucked, but not because of breakers :D). |
18 Jan 2014
HepatitvsJ
I made a 2.5 version that had about all the same changes. I went +2 yog for them instead of any liberated accounts. but I'm not dropping any plascrete because punitive counterstrike is a thing now and I'm not going to have the money to beat traces even outside of NBN. I used to run 0-2 plascrete but I'm back to 3 now. Lol. Please let me know how the new deck is working since I'm not getting a lot of testing time right now. :) |
19 Jan 2014
x3r0h0ur
So heres what I came up with to make it play more smoothly +1 Deja Vu -1 Plascrete -3 same old thing +3 liberated -1 crypsis -2 corroder +2 yog +1 mimic Lets justify it: -3 same old thing +1 Deja vu Deja is MUCH better for recurring account siphon, especially to avoid being tagged. It makes you capable of avoiding tags to use account siphon over again (SoT resource trash). This also opens you up to tag me if you HAVE to, because if you're using liberated/armitage in that case, you should be draining it in 1 turn (play -> take ->take ->take). Then if the corp spends 2 and a click to trash your liberated, fine, they should be poor anyway. Same with armitage, it only cost 1 to play for you. -1 crypsis -2 corroder/ +2 yog +1 mimic To proceed recklessly you need mimic. Find mimic as quick as possible with 3 copies, and just junk the rest. I feel like 3 mimic is strong to get the aggression early. Yog is there to blank the cheap ETR ice...you can't do much without yog. Now for the corroder argument. Most barriers you will encounter have 1 ETR subroutine. Most codegates you encounter have 2 subroutines. Knight is one of the very best barrier breakers(http://sneakdoor.com/). More efficient than corroder on average, even when adjusted for the most common barriers (ice wall, eli, himitsu, bastion, paper wall, wall of static). More surprising it keeps par with corroder on heimdall and so on. However, compare yog and knight on the common code gates: enigma and datapike. Yog = free, knight = 4 (3 higher install cost). It should be apparent the breaker to replace with knight is your barrier breaker, not your code gate. I'm afraid without crypsis though, you won't be able to siphon in time to get your economy going and slow theirs down. I rely on 3 djinn to tutor up my crypsis when I'm siphon whizzarding. The advantage of your build over mine is the pressure is much stronger on R&D since I use only medium. I was playing my "deck the opponent" noise build and having medium get counters while keyholing the fuck out of them...its impressive! |
19 Jan 2014
wilk
You make a very valid point on the Knight and Corroder - hadn't thought of it. I've always hated Crypsis in these decks and tutoring it with Djinn, though. Assuming you already have a Djinn out, Crypsis effectively costs you 6 creds and 2 clicks just to have it installed and if you don't have a Grimoire out, you probably have to click some more in order for it to stay in the rig. The credit and tempo loss is so huge that I tend to think it's not worth it even for early siphoning. I am beginning to think that Darwin + Surge works a lot better for such purposes, and you can tutor it up with Djinn, too. I think I will post my build. :) |
19 Jan 2014
wilk
Done, but how the hell does one use the Derived From field? I wanted to post the reference to the original builds... |
19 Jan 2014
apo
@wilk Drogi wilku, you would need to copy his deck, make changes and publish. Derived from gets autopopulated then. |
19 Jan 2014
wilk
@apo Thanks! Oh well, at least I give credit to HepatitvsJ in the general description. |
19 Jan 2014
HepatitvsJ
I hadn't thought of deja vu over SoT. I was locked in a "recur parasite for best value" mindset. Thanks. That does open me for liberated accounts and armitage. This makes me feel safer for longer games since I have stronger economy. I'm still keeping 3 plascrete until my meta says it's safe to go with only 2 (punitive counterstrike). I also like your reference to knight being the better barrier breaker. I had completely forgotten about that! I'm still slotting in on Corroder just for the early game draw because ice and paper walls are a thing as well as himitsu bako. Too many standard ICE Corroder breaks cheaply to completely give up the chance to get it. Also, I just need the backup for my own peace of mind since knights can be gotten rid of. I've reworked Through the Keyhole and I'll drop 2.5 in a bit. Thanks. @wilk. I did the same thing too before I figured out the copy aspect. :) |
Is Djinn worth it in this build? What can you put on it? Only suckers and Keyhole is not good enough, you will often drop Keyhole before getting hands on Djinn anyway.