The Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique 1.1

I've been playing Leela quite a bit (I'm at 15 plays atm), and I'm wondering how running more is helping you. To me, you have to be measured when running with her, else the corp rezzes ice and can often leaver her with no targets to bounce. Doppelganger and Security Testing both seem opposite her ability to me; ST so much that I swapped it out for Armitage, and after a few plays with those, I'll never look back.

We agree that different play styles lend themselves to different approaches, but I feel like your build would be anything but Leela.

@locusshifter Don't worry Baby Bird, I'll feed you. ST is there as a pressure point that the corp needs to now ICE every server or risk being outpaced by you. Without Desperado/Datasucker/John Masanori, you are much less invested in actually getting successful runs every turn, but a zero cost resource for a free MO tick every turn? Sure, I can swing that. If not, I'm happy just forcing ICE where it didn't want to be.

Similarly, Doppelganger threatens always being able to respond to an agenda steal, oftentimes hitting a place that was previously locked up has a high chance of finding more gold. While the deck could run Logos, empirically I can say that I won games entirely because of Doppelganger, and didn't feel that when I was playing a more subdued Leela deck that didn't start running until the mid-late game, that Logos was doing me any good. It's over costed and I felt like was putting many of my eggs in the same basket, because not only are you now more heavily invested in the corp scoring agendas, but you've diluted your deck with Logos targets that may or may not even be playable based on the board state. I would rather play Iain Sterling if I wanted to pressure the corp in that way. It's very hard to quantify the value of Doppelganger, because its value really is in the hands of the player. But being able to take 6, trick into a remote and THEN being able to take a stab at HQ or R&D (or vice versa, make a play for a central server and poke your head in a remote)

I guess my response is ultimately, I find it better to use her ability as a single part of a overarching strategy, rather than doubling down on it as a gimmick.

For sentry breaking, I recommend 1 alias and 3 faerie, that set up can easily be sustained between inside job and not attacking remotes stupidly. You do lean on alias a little bit, but at least you're not super inefficient with crypsis.

If there was an extra MU or some clone chips in the deck, I would completely agree with you, but I don't really have the luxury of having a an Alias and a faerie on the table regularly. Interestingly, Alias still is not all that much better than Crypsis is on average, and that ~1 credit difference is easily accounted for with MO cash and (as you said) more judicious running.

I had 3x faeries for a while, but what I was finding was that no matter what sentry breaker I was running (and Crypsis now) I almost never got to use all 3 before giving up that slot for a more permanent breaker.

@falseidol You did somewhat address what I was talking about, which is how much you run. I still think that given how much you're running, that perhaps another ID would be stronger with this build.

I'm not sure why the Logos tangent. Logos isnt' required despite its popularity in Leela builds. I can tell you this: if someone wants to wait until mid game to start running because they want Logos to fire, they're doing it wrong IMHO.

I'm glad to see love for Doppel BTW. I think it's underutilized, and simply got overshadowed by Andy builds, and their love for Desperado.

We obviously disagree.

I guess my point was that, Doppelganger is not evidence towards how much or little I'm running, simply that if you're going to have a console that isn't always doing anything for you (either because you aren't running every turn, or because its only online when an agenda is scored), which would I want WHEN I want one? That came down to Logos or Doppelganger, and I didn't feel like Logos was providing the necessary tempo to make up for its inefficiency, while Doppelganger has routinely daisy-chained into agenda steals that were otherwise impossible.

I think the only difference is that I play my deck more like a Kate or Gabe, where the ID ability provides support to a certain deck type and playstyle, where as other people prefer to play her all-in on the ID ability, like a Kit, Iain, or Noise. I don't think one way is right, but I think its silly to assume not leaning on your ability as a crutch means its the wrong ID for the deck.

I like the choice of Crypsis, I think it's an inspired choice. However stacked sentries or running through them several times could now be annoying especially with the click intensive opus. I'd definitely go with -1 Mr. Li and +1 Earthrise Hotel due to that very same reason.

Hey, thanks @Totakeke! Its definitely an issue with Crypsis, but one that has so far been manageable. Also, I was surprised how often corps simply think I won't be willing to kill my own Crypsis. As for the Mr. Li/Earthrise debacle, there are times where that would certainly be the right call, but even with just 2, playing one early sometimes means I fail to get the funds to play all the cards I'm drawing, compounded by its high cost, I am hesitant to take a third copy. The swap I have contemplated is cutting a Mr. Li and swapping my Gordian down to a Zu.13 so I can get in a Quality Time, but I've been quite pleased with Gordian presently.

Have you considered dropping Mr. Li for Express Delivery? It is cheap and efficient and often feels like a tutor in a pinch. Are you clearing tags from Siphon? Seems like you can just power through them in the right matches. If so, then Masanori is def a tad better, as an Earthrise should def get trashed while tagged. Express can help dig for that Plascrete a little quicker in a pinch--no guarantees. (I am not so much a fan of things like this as a singleton just because the odds of finding it when you need it, Mr. Li /other sift cards or not, are very low. With no ability to search this reliably, it is pretty close to the same as playing zero.)

Since you have Opus, why not 1 Femme. It is such a good surprise to drop on what a corp considers a safe server. It's obv not the best opening card, but still... it is another ace up your sleeve.

Part of me wonders if a single Deja Vu would be a nice addition in order to get back a key program that gets trashed; OR, at worst, another Siphon if you don't have Same Ol.

Thanks for sharing. I plan on tweaking this more to my means and giving it a try at the next league night.

OH, and Sure Gamble seems a bit redundant when you are leaning on Opus. A slot in any deck is part of the cost of a card, and when it is as low impact as this, I feel pretty confidently it isn't necessary--there is the room to give Express Delivery a try :)

Hey, @travisrchance, thanks for the feedback! I've kicked around a bunch of different draw/money packages, and different versions have relied more/less on Mr. Li This deck has a butt load of programmed redundancy, and part of why Mr. Li is so good is that he helps filter past pieces I've already found. I think I would probably replace Earthrise Hotels with Express Delivery if anything, as Earthrise can grind your efficiency way down without a few strong pulls. Express Delivery also works really well WITH Mr. Li because its another on-demand shuffle, and keeping your deck from getting too ripe on the bottom is good to have. right now, I'm considering dropping 1x MO for 2x QT, and then maybe shifting the ERH into Express Delivery or John Masanori.

Femme is a solid pick and the main reason right now that I don't have her is simply because its clunky as I can max out my MU pretty quickly. Unless you are using her instead of a Crypsis (which could be a valid decision, but I'm feeling more and more that the deck needs some kind of vector for mythics and traps beyond just a rig of regular breakers).

The weird 1-of that I would really like to include is Quest Completed, because it allows me to access remotes while keeping Leela's threat of bouncing face-down ICE, Deja Vu could be alright, but it dilutes my redundancy in one way for more in another, and I fear at best it would be a wash. Still, could be worth tinkering with.

Sure Gamble is an ugly duckling to be sure, and if you look at the first iteration of the deck, I didn't include it. Sure Gamble is in here for two purposes: one, and probably most importantly, is to help preserve your opening hands, and help keep your options open and the order you use your cards optimal. The other thing is that without any program search, its important to have some semblance of a regular economy, as sometimes MO shows up too late for you to likely get your money's worth from it at its high barrier of entry, Having Mr. Li means I can ignore most of these traditional economy cards once MO is on the table, while halving the number of draws it takes to get there. It might be worth exploring Professional Contacts and dramatically changing the economy/draw package, but I have so far found MO necessary to maintain a threatening board position without tying it to your runs or draws, both of which can burn you if you aren't running (and by extension, using your cards).

Thanks for the quick reply. I get WHY you're playing Mr. Li. What I don't quite get is how you're keeping him around, as you are playing Siphon. So you're removing tags on the regular to keep him, I would suppose? Even for the pilfering effect, that can be quite click inefficient, even with the free runs from Doppleganger as a buffer.

Quest Completed is different as 1 off and works with your console. Plascrete has a pretty defined purpose, and in games where it doesn't matter, it is worthless. Your opponent's deck is what defines its use. Quest Completed has far more utility, as you draw it and can begin looking for windows.

Lastly, I would argue that Deja Vu is more redundancy, as it is effectively an additional copy of any card you have lost/used along the way. I understand what you mean about cutting down to 2 copies on other cards though.

Again, thanks for the reply.