Solidarity v0.11

I'm enjoying following the iterations and have been running a very similar Nasir deck for some time now. I generally always love the underdog.

If you have time, it would be great to hear some of your experiences, thoughts and tips you've picked up in playtesting.

I'm not sure I feel confident enough in the deck to write about it - I only played a handful of games (less than thirty), and I'm still making major changes such as removing the Professional Contacts for Earthrise Hotel (which has worked great thus far). In other words, I would not want to waste people's time with unsubstantiated observations; I might being a bit too cautious, though - for comparison, I played about fifty games of NEH AstroBiotics before I started promoting it, and hundreds of games by Worlds 2014.

No probs. Nasir is anecdotal at the moment to say the least. That's the stuff I am actually the curious about. He's not really featured in Youtube vids or discussed much play wise so I am more tactical, anecdotal stuff because I think the core of his a-list is there, I think. Which is strange because identity has the biggest impact on decision making I've seen so far.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said. I think the main reason Nasir is not seeing as much competitive play as other identities is because he is difficult to pilot. You need to understand your build and the various options the Corp has against you. Furthermore, it is unclear whether the payoff is worth your investment compared to other Shaper identities like "Mac" or Chaos Theory, both of which provide a clear benefit.

Do you have any specific areas you would want me to cover?

Mmmm. Wow at my english in the previous post. Heh. I'm curious about stuff like mulligan choices, do you ever play opus from your opening hand, do you ever spend GR credits on playing programs, do you look to go completely broke prior to running or will you give up 1 or 2 credits if the score is on. Stuff like that.

I think Nasir has the benefit of an early game burst economy that other ID's can't match. Because you want to spend his money and draw cards, it makes him pretty much the fastest rig builder around.

How do you feel about Astrolabe in this deck?

It's great! Early-game memory plus card draw are always welcome. What else do you want to know about it?

I definitely think it's the right choice in this archetype, where you want alternative card draw. Do you ever wish it was a toolbox? Or do you feel the high cost of the programs and other cards make such a high cost console not viable here? I have been unimpressed with astrolabe in testing, always wanting the extra link and recurring cred. Then again, I usually play diesel in my Nasir decks and Solodarity doesn't.

I just posted some of my approaches to deck building on BGG.com:

www.boardgamegeek.com

Toolbox definitely falls under the "best-case scenario" category. It's amazing when it hits the table but more often than not it's going to languish in your hand. Even worse, installing it might cost you the game. Do I ever wish Astrolabe was Toolbox? Yes, of course. More often, however, I am thankful that it is not Toolbox, cause I need an early-game source of MUs and/or I am playing against a Corp with many remotes, two situations where Toolbox would be useless.

I saw the post and retweeted it earlier in the day. Fair point about toolbox, but Nasir can power out toolbox as long as you're not overly dependent on using workshop for too many high cost programs and hardware. I've reliably been able to get it out when it matters, and I do think it is the best console for Nasir right now (but this is all build-dependent, of course). This is all leading up to this question: what about 2 akamatsu and 2 toolbox instead of 2 cybersolutions and 2 astrolabe? I can see the obvious reasons not to play that MU suite (cost and your aforementioned reasons). Have you tried this out at all in testing?

Follow up question: in what circumstance would it cost you the game? In the absence of workshop?

Final thought, I was wondering how crescentus has been performing for you.

"as long as you're not overly dependent on using workshop for too many high cost programs and hardware" - this makes me suspect that you rely on Personal Workshop to bring The Toolbox into play. Let's examine that:

1) In about a 1/3 of games, all three workshops will be at the bottom 2/3 of the deck (this is a useful rule to remember about three-ofs in Netrunner). In about a tenth of games, all three will be at the bottom half of the deck. In these games, if you draw The Toolbox, getting it out will be time-consuming. Even with Magnum Opus, it's five and a half clicks. This deck relies on Workshop so much, I don't feel comfortable relying on it further.

2) As you pointed out, Toolbox is not the only Workshop target. I would say that top priority usually goes to breakers (Femme chief among them), then R&D Interface, then Magnum, then memory. Toolbox is economy + memory - meaning it's low priority. It will be a while before these nine credits go away.

3) On top of that, you're losing the early-game potential of Astrolabe. You always spend more time in the early-game then in the late-game (some games will end before the late-game arrives, but if it's late-game, you've definitely gone through the early-game). As such, the late-game boost of Toolbox is utilized less often than the 2-3 cards you'll get off Astrolabe.

With that said - I will admit that I did not try Akamatsu + Toolbox instead of Astrolabe + Cybersolutions. I did play against Nasir decks with Toolbox, and as Corp I was always pretty happy to see it hit the table - because by then the game was usually over, or, at least, I had enough of an advantage that the 4-6 credits the runner will get off it were irrelevant. Hopefully this addresses the question of when Toolbox will cost you the game - the difference between waiting four turns until you get the Toolbox and having an early Astrolabe and drawing 2-3 cards off it is significant.

In other words, it's not just the cost of getting the Toolbox on the table, it's also missing Astrolabe during that time.

(Not to mention that the two strongest Corp decks right now rely on multiple remotes, and that Blue Sun often dissipates its remote by picking up ice.)

Good question about Crescentus. Generally I like having it around, especially versus Bioroids, Archer, and Blue Sun. I'm open to suggestions on other uses for that one influence - the only other candidate seems to be Datasucker, and when I had it in the deck I never seemed to use it.

Thoughtful response. I don't usually build with toolbox as the centerpiece, and getting it out can sometimes be challenging. I'm on my phone right now and so can't link to the decklist I'm using. It's in my profile called Nasir Parasite Recursion ver2, I believe. The one with Dyson and Zu. It's much different build than Solidarity, but strong. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts at a glance.

On that one influence for crescentus, there are limited choices. I don't like Datasucker in Solidarity. Each time I've got it out I never needed it. The third Stimhack? It's a hard call and depends on what you want to tech against.

As a rebuttal to the astrolabe argument, finding astrolabe late is almost worse than finding toolbox early. The thing about Toolbox is that you want it in the mid-game, but you really want astrolabe turn one. The chances -I will wager- are higher to find toolbox or another chip by midgame than it is to get astrolabe out early-game, especially while Solidarity doesn't have diesel and only 2 copies of the console. I'm not saying Solidarity wants Toolbox, but that the argument cuts both ways.

Entirely possible that a different build would prefer Toolbox to Astrolabe - for example, if you use other sources of economy, if you're less reliant on Workshop, if you have Diesel and/or Quality Time. When you have a moment link your deck and I'll have a look :-)

I was wondering about third Stimhack, but I feel that my draw rate for it now is right, two seem to be an appropriate number. And Crescentus is a reasonable choice, I never tutor for it but I often end up doing something with it when drawn. I suspect Crescentus + Utopia Shard (or Mimic) will become Clot once The Valley is out.

I agree that finding Astrolabe late is mostly useless. Note, however, that over a large number of Netrunner games, you will spend more time in the early game than in the late game. So a card that is great early but useless late is generally superior to a card that is great late but useless early (this is a very generic argument, of course). In a perfect world I might consider 2x Astrolabe, 2x Toolbox, but sadly I cannot voluntarily trash Astrolabe.

Here is the list :) netrunnerdb.com

Looks like a pretty solid build - I'm guessing you had a chance to test it a bunch. Anything I offer would probably come down to playstyle decisions:

1) Where's "Lady"? I cannot imagine playing Shaper without "Lady" at the moment. She's tied with Corroder for best fracter as far as I can see.

2) Akamatsu over Dyson. You seem to have enough MU, only Zu gains from the cloud, and you don't do anything else with the link.

3) Gordian Blade instead of Zu. You can use your pre-Nasir credits to boost Gordian. This means Lotus Field leaves you with five credits change (and Tollbooth with four). Plus it's slightly more efficient.

4) Is Kati Jones working for you? She's a consistent credits source, which is good, but you cannot stockpile as easily as other runners because of Nasir's ability.

5) I would recommend testing Earthrise, maybe instead of Quality Time and even instead of Diesel. It has a smoothing effect that chimes well with Nasir.

Lots to cover. Again, on my phone so I hope this offers satisfactory answers.

1) I want to fit Lady in. This is something I've been trying out in variants, but I so rarely need it that I cut it from the deck. A bit strange, I know, but in testing, I always needed Atman instead, and it dealt with the problem ice. The main thing I want lady for is Blue Sun.

2) I was playing Akamatsu for a long time. The switch came from a lot of testing. Because this deck wants to use Parasite as much as possible (or even grab david) and when the rig is set up, we went with Dyson. Making Zu free is great because that extends the life of SMC. The link is welcome as well and helps with ash and caduceus. Generally, I wanted each piece to fit together and push toward the deck's strengths. It is like a mini Toolbox in a way.

3) gordian is great, but expensive to play. Ultimately, I use Zu for cheap code gates and suckers + atman for big ones. Parasites help deal with difficult ice. If I get in a bind, I have femme. However, if I went akamatsu instead, I would play gordian blade. The meta is swamped with low str code gates right now, but going gordian might make a better choice. The main thing to prepare when playing this deck is what ice you want to parasite on which servers during each major matchup.

4) Kati helps the rig stay tight, and banking moneu with her is a neceasary evil. I would prefer a better source of income, but she is manageable in conjunction with codebusting.

5) have yet to test with Earthrise, but I suspect you're right about it. I'm excites to try it.

So those are some thoughts on the build. I'm working on an article covering Nasir archetypes and playstyles, and some of what I wrote above derive from that (not yet published). The hardest matchup so far is blue sun, and I'm working on a gameplan against it.

Suggested other candidate for the 1 influence: a one-of Copycat can be a great trick in Shaper. Worth testing?

@JAK I like it! I'll try it when I come back to New York after the holidays.

@CJFM I'm surprised that your hardest matchup is Blue Sun, as it seems to be my easiest. Which part of the match is a challenge?

I'll admit this is not really due to the deck so much as not finding plasctetes in time. David can deal with oai'd ice and if you can find the plascretes its probably 75% in your favor. I've had a bit of impatience with blue sun matchup and caused my own death more than once ;) it could also be my luck at getting double scorched...

I need to practice that matchup. I think the matchup is generally favorable, but can go back and forth. It gets easier if I add lady.

Having the Utopia Shard helps against Blue Sun - often serves as a third Plascrete Carapace. And "Lady" is great in busting through these big barriers.

Yep Nasir can be really squishy. Have either of you gentlemen experimented with Stealth breaker lists in Nasir? What put you off them? My general concern was that they felt too slow and more 'riggy', less 'toolboxy'. If that makes sense.

@Volstruis I only briefly messed around with a build that used refracter. The problem for me is not being able to fit in all the stuff Nasir wants. I've only had two games with it and my general thoughts are that it's powerful but slow to get assembled. I need to test with it more, though.

Here you go:

stimhack.com

Hope you enjoy the read :-)