This card is way too strong. I really feel this card broke Netrunner. Him paired with Archer will end the game 66% of the time if both players have credits. Even if you play the best Netrunner game of your life; if the corp has 2 credits and a scored agenda, if you guess wrong, they blow up your sentry breaker, you then run into Archer and lose your other two breakers.
Even with NEXT Gold, if you guess wrong, you could just lose...
I'm fine with a card doing something like Marcus Batty, but not on a guess....
Any thoughts on this please post them in the comments.
He has to be trashed in order to work, so without recursion he's pretty useless. Even with JH you have to draw back into him, and a card like batty isn't something you give 3 deckslots to. He requires the right setup to use properly, and 3 is going to guarantee 1 will be useless. That being said, yeah, archer hurts. Even if you're prepped for plain archer, it hurts. As a runner, though, there are plenty of tools to get past him, though. Hell, Batty chops your sentry breaker, it's useless if you have clone chip, SMC, anything that installs mid-run. Even Savior-faire counters that combo, with another breaker in hand. I promise, he can be undone, you just have to have a backup plan.
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Riconosuave
I don't think think Marcus Batty breaks Netrunner. He just forces Runners to play a bit differently than they would have otherwise. Now you can't just pay your way through any server you want without consequences. So don't play a Runner that only pressures one server in case that server becomes too dangerous to run. Or play aggressively and trash him out of R&D before a really dangerous server is made. Or slot in a Sacrificial Construct or two. Certainly it has an impact on the game, but it can be played around.
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turkishvancat
I actually really enjoy the cards he's bringing back to the table (turkishvancat mentioned Sacrificial Construct; Marcus and Geist are totally bringing it back and that's awesome). Marcus breaks the game in the same way Gang Sign does; he provides a couple possibly major shifts per game and forces your opponent to play differently. Game-breaking? No. Meta changing? Not even as much as Clot. Gnashing and wailing of teeth? About as much as Will-o-Wisp causes.
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FarCryFromHuman
I think when you write "I really feel this card broke Netrunner", you mean you haven't figured out a way to include cards in your deck that respond to a Marcus Batty effect.
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Robotron5673
Nope, I mean he broke Netrunner. I'm pretty sure he's an auto include in any non-combo deck, and if not, then I feel you're playing wrong.
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UminWolf
Wouldn't let me stack my comments, so a second one I guess. NEXT Gold and Marcus Batty just straight up kills the runner on a guess that is in Corps favor. With any ICE that trashes a program, you can lose a vital piece of your rig on a guess. That's my issue, that it's a guess. I'm fine with trashing my programs, but things that make Netrunner not Netrunner is game breaking. Point, @turkishvancat said, "Now you can't just pay your way through any server you want..." But if I gave up the early game and took the time to build up a full rig and solid econ engine, then that's what I should be doing. So just screw big-rig? I play aggro criminal, and I can't run against him because I can just lose my everything, or even the game if he triggers a cortex lock that I can break with few cards in hand....all on a guess. Not because the corp played better than me, but because literally every runner has to change the way they play in order to survive Marcus Batty because they guessed wrong
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UminWolf
#Sacrificial Construct
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Robotron5673
So you say he wouldn't be that gamebreaking/-destroying without the Psi-Game? o_O
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Killer Power
Exactly. Look at Corporate Troubleshooter. Basically the same thing, except it's money game, which is part of what makes Netrunner, Netrunner; the money game. Same thing with SEA Source and Midseasons, it's part of the money game. I think the best comparison can be made to the Scorched Earth combos, SEA Source and Posted Bounty. Posted Bounty, I can't stop with money, but they (more often than not) have to install --> advance --> advance. So I still have a chance to get into that server. And if they played well enough to create a scoring window to where I can't, then they get the Scorched win because they played well. SEA Source/Midseason is the same way, they play well enough/I made some mistakes to set up for the tag n' bag. But Batty, it really doesn't matter how well I play or really how well they play. If lose the Psi-Game, I pretty much lose unless I'm running recursion. You can't say the same about Plascrete because like I said before, you can play in a way that they really have to work to get the kill....here I just have to guess wrong...
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UminWolf
I think most people agree Psi Games that aren't breakable subroutines (Caprice Nisei, Cerebral Cast) make the game less fun. I'll totally give you THAT. But if you think Batty can't be played around, you're just wrong. You keep saying you "LOSE" the game on a single guess, implying you lose the game if a single ICE subroutine fires. If your runner deck can't handle a single program trash, your deck has bigger problems (even before Batty). Your argument boils down to "Netrunner is a MONEY game, not a GUESSING game". Netrunner is literally a guessing game. It sounds like the only way to like to play is slowly, with a giant rig and huge econ. The corp gets a card that complicates your (single) strategy? That's wonderful. That's how the meta stays healthy. Adapt.
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Bigguyforyou518
Actually, I play aggro criminal. And I'm pretty sure any deck can handle a single program being trashed...but not when I'm then forced to encounter a piece of ICE (that I can't break now) and that trashes the rest of your rig. I'm not saying Batty can't be played around, but not all deck types can play around him. So my worry is that he is going to be too strong and end up shaping the meta completely by himself. I've been a competitive MTG player for nearly a decade now, and I went through a complete and total meta shift all because of one card before. I don't want to see that happen to Netrunner. I could totally be wrong and he won't get played that much, but I personally believe that he strong enough that people should be running him in a rig trashing deck teching in Blacklist. If I'm right, this will literally force out certain runner types for a while. Not to mention my aggro criminal style being completely crushed unless I start sacrificing aggro for cards necessary to tech against a card that, as you stated, works off a mechanic that just isn't fun.
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UminWolf
Also, I disagree with you saying Netrunner is literally a guessing game
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UminWolf
First (from my perspective) Netrunner is neither a money nor a guessing game, but a game of bluffing.
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Killer Power
(sorry for double comment, acidentally hit enter...). Second I still don't think Batty will be that gamebreaking. It's not like that every Corp deck can add it and then kick 80% of the runners ***. You must have ICE in the deck, which can all those things you wrote, that ICE must be in the same server as Batty AND it must be rezzed. Also, it's not reliable! While the Corp has a 66,6% chance to destroy your rig or do other nasty things (which will be, as far as I understand you @UminWolf, one of the strategies behind these decks) it has a 33,3% chance that it does nothing! I don't think, that this is a reliable chance for a winning strategy. For an ermengcy plan: Sure. But to concentrate a lot of effort into things like this... Well, I don't think that it is worth it. Jackson Howard was far more "gamebreaking" (as in it is a staple in 80%+ Corp Decks nowadays) than this card is.
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Killer Power
The objective of a bluffer is to turn it into a guessing game. In netrunner there are ways to circumvent each bluffing mechanic. For example, Vamp'ing a corp to 0 credits completely eliminates the psi game. Marcus Batty will be very strong so long as the runner isn't prepared for him in one way or another.
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EnderA
I've read the comments here, and I have to admit, I'm slightly disapointed by the arguments against him being gamebreaking.First: The conditions to let him fire are trivial to fulfill. Rezzing an ice and rezzing an upgrade are both happening all the time. Second:
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bvc
second: He might do nothing, but if he does he generally wins the game. (I won the last 3 games on Jinteki.net that way.) And there are enought ways to get him out of your archive. Add to this that he is cheap to use (just install him, while you have enought money to use him) and you do get a annoyingly strong card. Yes, you can use sacrifice constructs. I hope you have 5 of them and a netshield when you meet my NEXT Gold, since otherwise you are completely broke or flatlined
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bvc
The problem here is that it really doesn't depend on who is playing better. It is more like "I'm losing!" and the next moment "I've won".
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bvc
