Apex has a seminar?

if you're worried about meat damage in certain situations, why not -1 Heartbeat, -1 Apocalypse and +2 Plascrete Carapace? Apocalypse, slap the Plascretes down and run :)

A few thoughts from having recently played against several Apex decks that were awfully similar to this. The problem with builds that rely on EH and Mimic is that without an answer to Enigma (one of the game's most played ice), you're never going to get a Apocalypse off; you're going to get tagged by Ravens and will never get through a Susanoo-No-Mikoto. There's other nonsense that D&D is throwing at you too involving tagging that is going to make your life miserable.

In all honesty, I would try some back to basics Apex - reg breakers, multiaccess, a few tricks and Chop Bot (this is probably a must-include for Apex). Fisk Investment Seminar is simply worse than Diesel most of the time (unless you're doing Data Leak Reversal spam - and I don't think Apex can do it well, anyway). Apex needs both a decoder and his mimic to supplement EH (especially if you're apocalypsing), or he's just going to get locked out consistently. He can probably get along fine without a fracter.

As you say above, Hunting Grounds is cool, as is Prey, but they're time consuming and card-consuming. Levy is a good include, I think, as is infiltration (probably not 3?), but consider losing Siphon. AS is not as good here because you have no multiaccess to punish the credit denial (Vamp is probably better IF you can build a sweet economy engine).

Hope that helps.

@PeterCapObvious Hey dude thanks for the suggestions.

I'm not too sure at this point but i feel that heartbeat is a really strong console against any form of damage so it depends on how the facedown cards are used that would determine if it's needed.

If you build up a load of them installed then your pretty much invulnerable with heartbeat installed but if your using them alot to break stuff with EH and prey then it might be needed but 3 creds is a reasonable tempo hit with Apex and it gets turned facedown after apocalypse which means you might aswell keep the heartbeat on the table.

If say chopbot is constantly trashing them and your getting money from wastelands as a sort of money/draw engine then the plascretes are probably needed but your still vulnerable post-apocalypse.

@CJFM Some very good points here thanks man!

I've been using prey for enigma up until now and hunting grounds to prevent the tag from data raven but tbh I usually go tag me with apex once the Heartbeat is installed unless i need the hunting grounds ability for grail usually. If they get a counter on data raven just blow it up with prey?

I considered adding a refractor given the ghost runners for Enigma/Turing and it's pretty cheap but if only it was 1 inf not 2. Influence space is so tight in all these mini faction runners!

Susanoo is a real spanner in the works. I hadn't considered it . I have no idea how apex would deal with that maybe D4vid? Or go sucker/mimic or AI breaker? The one good thing is that it's unique so if they put it on a central like rnd - sure no apocalypse but you can just pressure another central and/or the remote.

I like the idea of the chopbot draw with wastelands down but I found it really slow in testing against the usual corp bs like ETF and NEH. If only stimhack was preventable with heartbeat!

Defo agree with the FIS vs diesel. I guess the idea was to get the corp to accelerate through their deck and keeping them poor and blowing all their servers up but in reality your probably doing them a favour giving them that draw unless your doing it alot like laramy does plus with the whole dlr cheese thing can you mill the corp pretty quick (which apex can't do)

Hmm i'm gonna test this out tonight against some players and see how it goes. the lack of multiaccess is probably an issue too. I have another version i'm gonna test too and see how it holds up too and post it up later. Thanks for the feedback guys!

How does Endless Hunger work with Turing or Wotan? Can it break their subroutines?

@pang4 it can only break etr subs which is a pain. I had a good session with apex tonight and think I've come up with something vaguely useable using Adams directives ABR and Safety first. Still needs a bit more testing but I'll publish the list later on.