Legends of the Hidden Temple 5th, then 1st

I've been playing against this deck for a few weeks now and I can attest to it's power level. If you don't have any ice destruction (or GS Shrike M2) then this deck is a pain. There are so many targets that need trashing...good stuff here!

If you like going rogue this is a good deck choice. MWL did Gagarin a few big favors. Val and Whiz not easily being able to import Desperado plus tour guide holding up a bit more with less parasite and clone chips is important for this deck. Criminals being out of the meta is also big. Security testing and desperado could get obnoxious.

Have you thought about working in an interns?

@MoxWall I have, but what to cut?

I'm sure you've already experimented with it, but is Archer any good in this deck? Is it worth replacing a Caduceus/ Tour Guide?

@shinygerbil Well, it's an option. There are problems with playing Archer in this deck. Here's how I see it:

1) you only have 13 ice, as it is, 1 of which is a behemoth (Hadrian's) so you essentially have 12 ice you can play turn 1 and would have a high probability of being able to rez.

2) the deck already sacs an agenda to Corporate Town which does mostly the same thing Archer does in the matches where you want it (both are good against Faust decks, which all play pancakes combo, but Corp Town can wreck any resource deck, not just Faust-based ones). Corp Town is additionally tutorable with Bootcamp.

3) Corporate Town synergizes better with the asset approach and is another couple bucks out of Turtlebacks.

4) You never would cut Tour Guides or Caduceus. Both are frustrating for Faust players because they require you to either pay lots of cards or find your alternate breaking method (parasite for Tour Guide, Mimic for Caduceus). Finding those things takes time, and they usually only have 1 Mimic.

5) Losing a Corp Town drains a lot of money, while losing an Archer to Forked just costs the runner cards. Draining money is more in-line with the game plan.

After weighing the options, I went with no Archer. I've found it just hurts too much when the runner can usually ignore it, and Shaper has no trouble putting Atman at 6 nowadays.

You know, I love my Gagarin build and all, but it honestly doesn't have the greatest Whizz matchup. I'm gonna take your build for a spin, @CJFM. I really think you're on to something here.

@Saan Thanks, hope you enjoy it as much as I do. :)

Without upgrades, how do you win versus remote camp? Granted this requires early recognition by your opponent of your strategy, but in my experience all the ICE in the world won't protect your remote from getting cracked once. Do you think this build would still be strong if it became popular and Runners had experience against it ? Seems like never run centrals is the answer to this deck.

@moistloaf what, are they going to check all your remotes, even unadvanced? and even iced? If they get in once, you likely have a scoring window. Not hitting centrals is a fast way to lose.

I don't understand how you beat Whizzard when he can just parasite your tour guide.

I'm with @jage...how do you avoid just getting R&D locked? All of your ICE is either easily Parasite'd or easily cutlered with D4v1d. Once the one-of Cyberdex Virus Suite is gone it's open season.

@jage @Andannius There are no Seasons in space. Look, it seems like Whizzard has every tool to do it. The problem is that his deck relies so hard on Faust and Liberated and he loses so much money running remotes and playing cards that he can't get in when it matters. If he's not running remotes, you start to go infinite with money, and museums shuffle stuff back in. Dbs finds you more ice. He can't do everything. Noise also has medium and parasite, and I though that match was unfavorable about a week ago.

I'm not trying to sound righteous, and as I tested nore and more against whizzard (playing as and against him vs Gagari Temple) I just started to see his seams, and then his game plan unravelled.

Museums prevent R&D lock by shuffling the deck before drawing. DBSs let you see more of your deck so you can choose the best card for the moment. Museums also let you get ice back that they trash. If they don't spend their time (and real credits) running and trashing the assets, you can build a very powerful boardstate.

Whizzard is certainly a hard match up for this style of deck, but it still requires skilled play from the runner. It's by no means an auto-lose situation.

I really like this style of deck that people are playing with the Temple +Museum +DBS. I like the speed and scoring strategy in NEH better, but I like the way Gagarin forces extra credits to be spent on the asset spam and the stopping power of the ice.

@CJFM

Don't get me wrong, I haven't played it. I'll give it a try. Maybe 2 hostile infrastructures instead of 1 would help against Whizzard.

@jage It's all good. I'm just speakig from having played it a lot. The deck is by no means pick-up-and-play or auto-pilot. But in the past, Gagarin decks have been really lacklustre to me. They all have had the same problem of rnd death. I honestly think that some of the deck's resilience is in the 10 agenda suite (requiring 4 stolen) in a 54 card deck.

I can't overstate how powerful Museum + dbs + temple is.

I wanted a second Hostile, but I think your beat bet is just to bootcamp for it. I hear the NEH temple deck plays 2. Must be nice...

This makes Archives Interface much more tempting.

After (admittedly little) playtesting, I can confirm the Lizzie Mills sucks. I think a second Bootcamp or a Will o Wisp as a quasi-defensive upgrade. Hopefully this deck will get some support in Mumbad, it's fun to play (as I am typing this I realize it's probly a pain to play against).

I think Lizzie Mills is a necessary evil. Because of no defensive upgrades, Blackmail would be very inconvenient for this deck. Lizzie Mills let's you burn a bad pub, and Bootcamp can pre-rez stuff. Pre-rezzing is not the best versus a runner with Parasite (esp. rezzing a Tour Guide), so having both is likely important. Lizzie Mills can also kill the Wyldside or a Pawnshop. I played a game last night (vs. Whizzard) in which I Lizzie Mills killed the Wyldside, Museumed it back into the deck, then Bootcamp fetched it to remove the bad pub.

Will o will not help vs. Blackmail.

I'm on the same page as @cspieker, as he's helped me test the deck more than anyone, and he has some experience both with and against it. I don't like having Lizzie, but having 2 ways to beat Wyldeside and Aesops is just fantastic. I am considering cutting the The Root for a current, either Housekeeping or Paywall Implementation. Any thoughts from the collective?

@CJFM my point was that you can only get to 6 pts by playing the Never Advance game. i was thinking the Runner builds board while letting you durdle and install one million assets, then just camps your scoring remote. especially an anarch who can blow up Tour Guides which are really your only decent ICE (a bizarre statement)

@moistloaf I only play the never advance game if I know I can win it. The deck has to keep pushing agendas because making the runner HAVE to install stuff pushes them toward poverty. You can easily score NAPDs, too. It's really not that hard in this kind of deck. I generally score one or two public supports in every game. That and even one 2/3 puts me in a really solid position to win.

I agree that, in theory, camping a single remote would be strong. But it's not that simple. Runners can't really do that anymore. Noise can't. Whizzard can try, but he really can't. If the runner leaves too many assets, they will hurt her. She will get put in Corp Town, and the runner will have no money for the rest of the game.

Oh, and Tour Guide is great, but Assassin is a close second for best ice in the deck.

@CJFM I think that about every deck I throw Assassin in. It's an absolute beast.

Hats off to this deck, it's crushing ever since I sleeved it up - just a 2c to the doubters, I get it. it doesn't seem like it should work, but a lot of the time it does. the ole' "camp a single remote" plan is really tough becaus e the deck can force you to start camping real quick, and all it takes is 1 NAPD or a few missed public supports and you're S.O.L.

I don't know if I believe yet that this can be truly competitive, but the skeleton is here - looking forward to messing around with this as it seems weyland is only headed for more asset support.

at least 3 people were playing this at Raygun tonight. i definitely saw its power demonstrated. it doesnt personally appeal to me but i will dread the day i play against it. ppl can't be salty about faust as long as this deck is around ^_^ if everything is 'unfair' / 'unfun', than nothing is!

Awesome :)

With all this money, I feel like we should be able to find the influence for an ash.

Ok, so, I've tried Gagarin a lot, tried Museum of History, but not with Daily Business Show. Played some last night, and it was working, but didn't get any Whizzard games in. Here are some thoughts:

Not sure if The Root is necessary, what are your thoughts on cutting it? It's nice to have, but I feel like it's usually superfluous (either you have all your assets up so you don't need the money, or they're trashing everything possible so it won't last more than a turn). It's not BAD, but maybe something else could be better?

I'm going -1 Diversified Portfolio to add in +1 Housekeeping. Not sure if this is the "best" move, but getting an early #Housekeeping seems like it would be amazing. What are your experiences with Diversified Portfolio? Too good to cut? I feel like if they're leaving assets you don't really need the money anyway, and if they're trashing them it doesn't help.

Thought about adding Archer, but I feel like you don't really want to be sacrificing any points. I think you're gonna be trying to rush out the points. I get what you're saying about ice destruction; if they trash the ice, you just Museum of History it back in, and re-rez it since you're swimming in credits.

My biggest problem is finding what to cut. And the fact that Weyland needs better, diverse in-faction ice. Mainly, a higher-str code gate with ETR. Have you considered Datapike instead of Enigma? Maybe switch out 1? What about some of the advanceable ice like Wormhole? Faust? I know, one sub is bad for D4v1d, which is probably why it isn't included. Swarm? Only running a Mimic, this could kill Faust. Orion?

@jage all good ideas. Swapping out a Datapike for enigma is fine. Someone else suggested Orion in one of my vids, but I haven't messed with that yet. Could be better than Hadrians?

The Root is probably unnecessary, so it can get cut for an ice or current, which, given how people are thinking about teching against this, might be a good idea. Housekeeping or Paywall, that is the question...

Portfolio effectively won me a game against Nexus Kate, so only cut one, if you have to. I rather like bursting to 15 creditels and being able to rez hadrians.

Creditel? Credits. Thanks phone.

Orion is better for the anarch match-up, I think, because of the extra sub, but it is terrible if they are playing Study Guide. But, does anyone actually play Study Guide? I guess if you're worried you can just sub in Hadrian's Wall. Or maybe just switch to Curtain Wall.

"Trigger the Museum first, shuffling the deck, then DBS, placing a card (possibly an agenda) on the bottom of the deck. That makes your density all the worse for the runner."

FYI it doesn't work that way. Cutting the top cards off your deck exposes a completely random card to the runner. Arranging the cards that are placed on the bottom doesn't change that. If DBS let you choose to put cards back on top that would be a different story but the fact is that it doesn't.

It's still strong because it increases your chance to draw what you shuffled in which was obviously important. But it doesn't thin your agenda density.

@BoomFrog, the point isn't that the runner isn't seeing a non-random card. By placing an agenda at the bottom of the deck, you are decreasing the chance that the top cards are agendas. If there are, say, 10 agendas currently in the deck, and you put 2 of them at the bottom with Daily Business Show, then you have effectively thinned your deck by 2 agendas for the RnD access.

@BoomFrog yeah, the point is that you control where at least one of your agendas is.

IDK about Orion in this list. people are hot on it right now b/c it's kicking ass in bblum's Blue sun list, but it's much weaker when you can't de-rez it to re-position or protect from cutlery. It's also tough in this list which has relatively few ICE so the chance of it becoming 2-sub because there are no other ice rezzed is very real. Also, @jage rightly mentions Study Guide but there's also Cyber-Cypher, Faerie, etc. to worry about. the point being that for your one beefy ice it kind of sucks that they get to pick and choose their best solution to it.

played a few more games and finally lost! straight-up good stuff whizzard who drew his one-of Hacktivist Meeting in his opening hand and went to work making money and trashing assets. Given the nightmare situation this presented, I actually made it to 5 points, but eventually he cracked RnD open and I couldn't recover. It really taught me a lot though about playing the list under pressure and what rezzes were really important. EBC into Hostile Infrastructure cost me everything in my hand and lost me 2 points, but it bought me the small window I needed to score an atlas and break the hacktivist meeting and ultimately get in the game.

@voltorocks This is a good point, if currents start to be played more often (either hacktivist or e-strike) it would behoove us to include one or two in this list.

I played a few games with this and it's really good. But I was never happy to see The Root. It always felt like a "win more" card. I would cut it for an Interns. Being able to recur Lizzie, Hostile, etc. would be amazing. I'd also probably swap one Diversified for a Paywall to both counter the runner currents and make you more money. Over the course of the game you should be able to get as many credits from a Paywall as you do from a Diversified.

So, thinking about how to combat Whizzard more. I want to add in a Levy University. I also added a Paywall Implementation and a Housekeeping. Maybe trash Housekeeping and add in Levy University?

@jage Not sure it needs Levy University, but it's a thing to test. I played with Paywall yesterday and it netted me about 8-10 cred over the game. Not bad! Housekeeping is also a great choice. I'm considering playing one of housekeeping and one Interns to recur Lizzie.

``@CJFM` Right now I have 1 Paywall Implementation, 1 Housekeeping, and 1 Diversified Portfolio. I could cut one to add an Interns, which I want, but I didn't really want to cut any of the assets, they all seem like must-includes. I cut The Root to make the room.

Housekeeping is great if it is gotten early, but usually useless later. So I might cut it for the interns.

I hate these decisions!

@jage I know, they're tough to make, especially if you're taking the deck to a tournament. I would go with 1 interns and keep either the Housekeeping or Paywall. Interns plays really well with the suite, and it combos with Lizzie.

I faced two issues with this deck during testing. Firstly, the econ is a juggernaught when it gets going but getting it off the ground can be challenging especially against wiz or a crim with desperado and sec testing. Secondly, the lack of a defensive upgrade is problematic for scoring out, if they have an answer to tour guides. Have you found the same thing. I am thinking to try -3 turtles -1 hostile infra -1 mills -1 root +3 launch campaign +2 ash +1 blacklist. Thoughts?

Losing the Turtles kinda sucks, but if you really need a defensive upgrade, sure.

I just won a SC with this list. - Root + Interns. The deck was 3-3 on the night, beating a whizzard, noise, and Apocalypse Kate in the finals. The losses were to Parasite Kit, against a friend who knew the deck (twice, he, @pandapersona, had my number), and the Apoc Kate (another friend @podoboyz99 who was also running this list with a few changes and came in second!).

I think the Anarch matchup in general is good. Need to shore up the Katw matchup a bit (blacklist can help). There's still more work to do with this archetype, and I can only see it getting better.

I piloted this same deck earlier today. I was impressed with how it can really grind down the game. At one point i had a total of 8 rezzed assets, allowing my Tour Guide's to be uber taking.

@CJFMThis is really fun! I think there is definite promise here (and I typically have ZERO faith in horizontal decks). I'm not sure what the Root is doing here. In all my games it went unrezzed/unused. It seems a bit win-more. Is the Mills just for the Val Match-up?

@TheBigBoy Thanks man! Yeah, the root was cut from my SC decklist in favor of Interns. @podoboyz99 worked on adding a few more tech pieces (the second Hadrians and one Troubleshooter). (Ultimately, I just decided to revise this description a bit instead of making a whole new decklist entry.)

Mills is specifically for the Val matchup, but with the Interns, you get the sometimes-relevant interaction of Rez-Mills-Blow-Up-Wyldeside-Interns-Mills-rez-Mills plays. I sometimes use it as a weaker alternative to Corp Town in the relevant matchups, but it could be cut, ultimately.

I need to add the write-up from the SC (as the current write-up is from the previous weekend). I'll do that soon.

Updated with SC write-up!

I had to pay 29c to get through 3 ice. I don't like this deck.

@CJFM Love this deck! How do you feel about swapping New Construction in for Oaktown Renovation? It would have great synergy with Mumbad Construction Co., but I'm not sure what to cut for it.

Also, If you guy's like this deck, it was recently featured on CodeMarvelous' ANRBlackhats:
derezzed: youtu.be
test run: youtu.be

And you can see it expertly piloted by CJFM at Hidden Assets: www.youtube.com

I really hope to see Gagarin turn into a real powerhouse in the Mumbad cycle.

Congratulations! I'm playing your deck all day, and it's really awesome!

@BayushiOliveira Thanks! Glad you're enjoying it! :D

Hey @CJFM, just wanted to let you know I took this to a store champ today and got 1st place. Only 10 people, so not a major win, but still. I stared at your build for a long time trying to come up with a different way to customize it to my personal taste or local meta, but I ended up changing nothing at all.

Won against Tech Trader/B&E Geist, Chameleon Hayley, Maxx, and Siphon spam Jesminder. Dropped one game with my runner and another runner game went to a timed win. It's definitely a slow, grinding deck, but it does its job!

Thanks for the great deck!

@Myth Great to hear! Congrats on the win! :)