I just saw a beautiful play on Jinteki.net combining False Echo and DDoS : but the question remains, would the combo make it so that multiple False Echos can be used in one single run with DDoS? Would each ICE be counted as the outermost ICE when the previous one was bounced with False Echo during that same run?

It was a beautiful combo with two Hyperdrivers and a Keyhole in conjunction with the previously mentioned combo: the runner had 10 clicks in just one turn to run with Keyhole multiple times for free on an RnD that had no rezzed ICE, hence, False Echo could bounce the ICE in a single run and continue to hammer RnD with Keyhole.

If the DDos & multiple False Echos combo does't work in a single run, it is still great if you have all those Hyperdriver clicks and just bounce one ICE at a time and afterwards hammer RnD with Keyhole.

Yes, the combo works. I've been meaning to try it. —
I'm actually surprised this works, I figured the second effect that says the corp MUST rez ice would take priority over the older one. Wouldn't this mean that Blackmail also works with False Echo? —
It should. "Cannot" effects override others, so the corp would have to add the ice to HQ. —
Something about this interaction seems deeply fishy to me. I know it's considered legitimate, but hear me out: DDoS is a trash ability, meaning that its ability is paid for, activated, then the card leaves play. Once the first piece of ice is bounced with False Echo, DDoS is no longer "in play" and therefore its ability can no longer be referenced beyond what occurred during its initial activation. To me, when you trash DDoS, it only knows what the outermost piece of ice is as it's heading to the Trash. If False Echo changes this, DDoS has no knowledge of it because it's not in play. —
If DDoS was a resource that said "Forfeit an Agenda, outermost piece of ice cannot be rezzed" that would make more sense. DDOS would fire, then False Echo, but because DDoS would still be in olay, its state would be in-play and it could affect board state. To me, when DDoS is trashed, it's placing an invisible token on each outermost ice. It shouldn't have any knowledge of the board state once it's in the Trash. —
Very late reply, but DDoS just makes a binary statement "is this the outermost piece of ICE?" The ICE that is the outermost is not snap-shotted because it can change, and the ability doesn't target any specific ICE, it just says "all ICE that are the furthest from their server can't be rezzed." There are no invisible tokens, and it has no knowledge of board state. It would need knowledge of the board in order to track when a piece "shouldn't be considered the outermost ICE" anymore. —
The way to think of this is DDoS changes the rule of the game for a turn; the change is associated with neither DDoS nor the ICEs. For the rest of turn there is just an extra condition on whether the Corp would be able to rez a piece of ICE. —

The deck needs to be built around this card in order to make it work, one cannot just splash it anywhere since it would only be useful the one time the runner access an agenda and needs an extra 2 credits to steal. I suspect that it would presently be best in Industrial Genomics: Growing Solutions.

One can make a runner fall on a Fetal AI and have to pay a total of 4 credits to steal it on top of the 2 net dmg. But in a Genomics deck that protects its Red Herrings with absurd trash costs, if combined with Red Herrings, Genomics can make stealing a naked Fetal AI way more expensive than expected. Imagine a scenario with Predictive Algorithm out and also having one server with Hokusai Grid, Red Herrings and Fetal AI. That would be 9 credits and 3 net damage without counting any of ice in the server.


This card opens up the runner to be flatlined by a Ronin without first having to trick the runner into taking brain dmg. The great thing about this card is that you can now force the runner into loosing a considerable amount of hand size (2-3) from merely running on your scoring server or even running on a central for which the runner has multi-access capacity.

Moreover, Valley Grid might be a kind of staple card for Jinteki Biotech: Life imagined ID when using "The Brewery" (the one that does 2 net dmg). With this combination, one might be able to play without Ronin altogether: now you only need to land 1 or 2 brain dmg, and have a scoring server that is 2 or 3 ice deep. This creates a win-win situation for the Corp: if the runner goes into the server with Valley Grid, then you can flatline with the Corp ID ability. But if the runner doesn't go into the server, then you just score your agenda.

All in all, this card might be a fun splash in any glacier deck.

You can making a scoring server four ice deep and not even bother with brain damage. Just make sure the runner has to break every subroutine on every ice - no chum, no tsurugi. I have a deck demonstrating it but valley grid isn't showing up in published deck lists yet. —
Lttlefoot, I've been thinking the same thing! Neural Katanal, Cortex Lock (if it does at least 2 damage), and ice with only "end the run" subroutines are seriously threatening in front of a Valley Grid. —
Neural katana is a bit of a nonbo. The runner can just let it resolve if they know they will have to discard down to their max hand size at the end of their turn, and then it won't trigger the grid. —
Indeed. Net Damage is irrelevant if you're going to have a reduced hand size. The ultimate server would be 3 Guards in front of a Fetal AI with Valley Grid protecting it. That way the runner can't even bypass the Ice with Femme or Inside Job.... —
Fetal AI won't do anythimg but —
"If the Runner takes more damage than the number of cards in his grip, or if he has a maximum hand size of less than zero at the end of his turn, then he is flatlined and the Corporation wins the game." This means if you have at least 6 end-the-run or brain damage subroutines, the server will be an automatic flatline, barring blackmail or bypass abilities XD —
Going to try this in a Government Takeover scorch deck instead of snares. —

I' just waiting for some Johnny player to make a fun Wyrm / Parasite / Scrubbed / Ice Carver / Datasucker deck. It would be a kind of pseudo Eater & its cutlery deck. e3 Feedback Implants might be helpful, but I believe these kinds of decks are best when they focus on doing one specific crazy thing with all its cards. Or... could it be possible to just mix Eater AND Wyrm? Absolute destruction!

I have one Wyrm in my Noise Hivemind deck between Datasuckers and Wyrm, it's reasonably likely you can get a piece of ice to the range that you can blow it up with Parasite. Effectively, you're paying 2c per strength to bring Ice in range of Parasite, or better breakers. —
I use one wyrm in a similar deck for the same reason. it often makes the difference between burning down the breaker and bouncing off it —
I had a 3x Wyrm/3x Parasite Chaos Theory deck, using her small deck size and all that shaper draw and recursion. Just personal touched Wyrm and blew r&d open lategame. —
I had moderate success at a tourney with Wyrm+Parasite CT: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/101351 —
So fun :) —
@rnark I've been working on a variation of your deck, but haven't gotten to really test it yet. Love the concept. —
<p>I want to see a Wyrmosaurus one day :) maybe I can try it in a random Noise deck...</p> —

Additional support for Overmind and Ekomind, in a similar way that Deep Red was used for Overmind previously; but perhaps even better, since the memory from MemStrips is more flexible for utility with viruses, which are generally essential to the anarch play-style.