Solid State Noise

I've always been a fan of Noise who runs often. I'm not sure on what the name is trying to imply though, it reminds of an guitar amplifier.

@JTG81 Meant to be referencing the fact that the deck is solid (and his name is Noise, so nodding to a guitar).

YES! The Cujo inclusion is great, I've replaced Mimic with him in my Noise to mitigate the risk of hitting anything out of range with no datasucker counters to support. Cujo makes running when you absolutely need to possibly instead of wasting clicks stacking counters first.

Now that Breaker Bay is out, will you consider slotting Hacktivist Meeting into this deck?

@DrunkenGineer this is an interesting idea, though not one I feel I need to explore just yet. If I were to make cuts, it would be more than likely the Crypsis and perhaps 1 Deja--I know this sounds odd, but it makes for awkward openers, esp. in multiples.

@DrunkenGineer In truth, this deck does allow scoring windows--often you will let something sneak through in order to keep aggression on a central as a concession of sorts, esp. if means them having low bucks. For this reason, I think this card may just hit a single card from their hand and then get trashed. I don't like that it is one of those "draw this early for best effect" type cards. That bothers me for sure, though it is neat.

Out of interest, doesn't Lotus Field totally hose this deck? You need your 1-of Crypsis for it, plus 5 credits and a click to get through every Lotus Field, which seems punishing. Taking the Crypsis out would make Lotus Field a hard counter, which is worrying given how many corp decks splash for it. I think Spooned would be a reasonable inclusion for that reason.

I'm working desperately on a Hemorrhage Noise build that I have yet to publish and was ready to bash my head against the wall over the limited choices of breaker suite and econ engine with Noise. I REALLY wanted to get away from the Cache - Aesop's Pawnshop build because when every Noise player is spending all of their influence in the same way life gets incredibly boring. I also hate trying to make a "runner" with 1 - 3 limited breakers and try running only to watch the corp play solitaire while I snuggle with Wyldside. I don't know if this is what I was looking for, but I'm going to give it a shot. Thanks for the list and the ideas, good stuff!

Beautiful write up. As a fairly dedicated Noise player, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your thoughts on him. Thanks for sharing!

Given that the mill is incidental, how well do you think this deck would function with Whizzard instead of Noise?

@Circadia well, I wrote out a detailed reply, giving examples, and my computer crashed so I will just bullet point:

1.) I used to play with 2 Knights for this very reason, but they are so slow and non-synergistic, I cut them. One could argue for something like Force of Nature, I suppose, but I don't think a rezzed Lotus means game over.

2.) the deck is good at applying pressure across all fronts, switching as needed. Now, this isn't like MaxX, where you are in a stranglehold 9/10. Sometimes it is simply a case of letting them score to be down bucks so you can punch their hand or deck, while dropping in on Archives here and there. And there is also the aggro milling strat if you get locked out of a server, though I consider this a way to bide time when way up on econ/a last resort.

3.) I lotus isn't the end of the world. You don't have to be able to run a server over and over to be efficient, just at the right time. Yes, someone rezzing out two would stink, but the same could be said of many game states: no deck is resilient to everything. If Lotus Field is the Achilles Heel, I am willing to suck this up at the moment.

4.) Spooned makes for awkward openers. Since Yog/Sucker will get you through often, killing off most code gates is just a waste. And besides, killing a Lotus doesn't mean it is gone, right? They can Jackson it back, Interns, the list goes on. I don't want to dilute the consistency aspect of the deck beyond Clot to be honest. This is the strength of the deck, so doing otherwise diminishes that strength.

@HollowsHeart I would rank Whizzard as the worst runner, hands down. Before you all balk and fire back, listen. I have it on good authority that one of the main gents behind Netrunner stated Exile is the worst runner, which simply isn't true--I feel I proved this at two Plugged-Ins, and the deck is waaaaay stronger these days. Why is Whizzard the worst? Because you can build around Exile's ability, even weirdos like The Professor--which will get better with more cards added to the pool. Whizzard's ability is 100% dependent on the corp playing a specific type of card, you finding that card, and when you find it, it mattering in that game state. Yes, in a world of NEH and RP, his ability is relevant, but he is no Reina, no Noise, no MaxX, all of which who have fundamental advantages. Whizzard should have 1 link, or even if he had 4 credits for trashing, maybe even if there was a card that said "any card you access this turn can be trashed for its cost." In my mind playing him can often equate to a blank ID unless playing against a handful of decks. I myself have never been fond of trashables, as these mean more targets of opportunity for accesses on R&D and HQ. But some do, sure. I still don't think, even with NBN and PE asset econ being prevalent, that this makes Whizzard anything better than "useful at best in the now." Noise is just good.

So to answer your question, I don't think Whizzard is even close to Noise, even if you were playing less viruses. Noise can force the corp to play in a way they don't want to, protecting a server that is usually a moot point against most decks. Much like PE, he can just win games through this splash damage, milling away too many ICE, too many econ, too many whatever.

With Clot out, it is a fair assumption we may see a shift in decks like FA. This may mean Whizzard drops even further down the food chain.

no MU problems?

@eXister With Grimoire and a good portion of the programs being disposable, no, sir/madame. None at all.

@Circadia After some thinking, it dawned on me that Force of Nature is basically just a Crypsis with the advantage of not needing a virus token--against Lotus, that is. I skimmed all the current cards, and am having a tough time finding a solution, that works in-run, beyond Crypsis. Maybe I have been lucky in the 60+ games with this so far, but it has yet to cost me a match. With Grimoire out, Cryspis comes loaded, lets me deal with non-type ice like Excalibur, if needed (though I would prob just kill it with Parasite if able). I am considering putting in a single Stim Hack, which obv works nicely with SMC and Chip. I really don't want to diminish the influence by answering this issue, which I feel weakens the deck by taking away and option for a specificity that may not even be needed.

Thoughts, gang?

I say keep it as is. With 60 games played if Crypsis is the best option in testing then that is great. It is also a really great card for early game aggression.

I don't think you're the least bit crazy about the Crypsis; I almost always have one in just about any Runner deck of any faction. I've found the card to be just as you said - you need it very rarely, but here's the thing about the games where I install it: I typically win those games. Among other things like Excalibur/Lotus that you mention, it's a great way to leverage money into circumventing a large portion of the rig-building game if you get in a position where you have a big money advantage on the Corp.

I like crypsis too, but in decks with Djinn it is a bit better, since djinn hosts your programs, gets you the right tool for the job, especially crypsis as needed. Crypsis from djinn with grimoire out means you're threatening any server (especially if you can back it with stimhack) due to the free counter.

While it's not a great breaker, it gets you 'online' and the psychological impact of that on a corp is worth 5 credits (often I use Cyberfeeder so its less).

I like the diverse econ package here too, something a lot of decks don't do. I'm curious of your thoughts on cutting 1 clone for 1 opus, and cutting armitage. I know it has a lower barrier to entry, but opus is a stable 1 card answer, and saves slots (with the drawback of adding an MU issue for you). That said, with a loaded crypsis a turn of "take 8" is quite strong. Could open up 2 slots for stimhack, which has wonderful synergy with both CC and SMC (this is the true rational behind adding opus).

@x3r0h0ur I feel SMC is a functional, albeit more expensive, Djinn with regard to fetching Crypsis. I don't have MU issues. Sure, there are times I may have to trash an Imp or Sucker to make room for something, but it has yet to be a problem. I would argue paying 1 more than what it costs to fetch with Djinn to have it hit play without spending an action in-run is dang good, if not better. I do not think Djinn has a place in this deck, nor a need. If I played any, I would just play 1 as means to turbo through my viruses--which isn't what the deck is really about.

As far as Opus, I love this card. For a loooong time I played a version of Noise that ran 1 with SMC, but, at the end of the day, I think this is a pretty big change.

1.) The install cost is a tempo hit. So, yes, it gives me a lot of stable econ later in the game, but I am going to surrender a couple turns to get back on point. Armitage is sooooo cheap for what it offers, even with it being disposable.

2.) I def think I would have to add in some form of MU boost to combat the inherit disadvantage of 2 MU. Playing this and trying to build out a rig with SMC just ain't gonna jive--esp. if I don't find Grimoire fast enough (and even then...).

3.) Getting Opus out earlier in the game means I am not drawing dead on the 2 armitage and the pretty much the Kati. A big part of this deck is not having those bad hits, or, at least, to minimize them to the point that the majority of draws are live draws.

4.) I would rank Chip as one of the two best cards in the deck. Losing 1 would def stink, as I have had games where I have a hard time even locating a single copy while rocking 3. This isn't a change I think is worth the potential shift in build, which is a little more cascading than it may seem.

I apprec the feedback--though it prob seems like I just shot down everything you posited ;)

@x3r0h0urI think whether or not the -1 Clone Chip, +1 Magnum Opus, -3 Armitage Codebusting, +2 Stimhack is worth ends up probably being down to two things. First is how often you think that MU problem while cause you problems. I always have MU issues with this kind of Noise deck; I'm inclined to think that could be trouble. The second problem is a higher-variance early game economy, since you swapped 3 cheap economy stabilizers for 1 expensive econ engine and 2 burst events with a precondition (running).

What you're gaining here is a pretty big deal though. "Take 8" I think is a very powerful ability right now for a few reasons: movement towards Glacier archetypes in Corp, combating asset economy in Corp, setting up for R&D digs, and helps with turtling games if that's what's required. This strikes me as a turtling deck too; @travisrchance can correct me if I'm wrong, but if he says that Medium and Nerve Agent aren't required for the deck, then I suspect that this ends up playing much like the control Noise deck that was popular a couple years ago when Personal Workshop first came out, excepting that it uses Clone Chip and Self-modifying Code to get the paid-ability speed that's required and trading some additional expense (compared to Personal Workshop) to gain the Stack-search ability from Self-modifying Code.

If I'm right, then I'd describe this deck as a turtling deck - you want to give yourself time for the Corp-destabilization cards that you have (Parasite recursion, ability to pressure any server at paid-ability speed with "just enough" breaker power to require the Corp to need to be able to rez ICE anywhere on 3 servers + a remote on an instant's notice, Noise milling, Imp for key strategy cards like Scorched Earth, Punitive Counterstrike, Biotic Labor, Celebrity Gift, and so on). Once the pressure builds up sufficiently, the Corp has only a few options: they try to defend R&D, which you can counter with remote control and single-card access from HQ because the points saturation in HQ eventually builds up very high; they can try to defend a remote, in which case you can set up for the Medium big-dig turn; if they can somehow do both, then you can go for a virus-blitz to steal your points from Archives.

The Magnum Opus play fits into all this very nicely, but that destabilization strategy in my experience has a pretty significant draw-back - since it takes time to work, you have a relatively weak early game vs good, cheap ICE, and there's a lot more of it out there than when we were "knee-deep in Genesis Cycle". There's a fairly significant danger in you stalling out around turn 3-4 with this type of Noise deck in my experience, because the economy cards are limited compared to a lot of Runner decks and it's missing the explosive start cards like The Maker's Eye, Account Siphon, Indexing, and such that punish the Corp for trying to rush against you, knowing that Noise is typically weak vs that strategy compared to other Runners.

For that reason, I don't think you can realistically take out the 3 Armitage Codebusting and replace them with Magnum Opus and Stimhack, just because that choice extends the Corp early game even longer, either because you don't get the Magnum Opus fast enough, or because you had to pay 7 for it via Self-modifying Code and give up an entire turn along with also pressuring your own mid-game by requiring you to find one of only 2 MU solutions in your deck before you can get out everything you want.

Instead, I think if you want to make this change, you have to accept that you need those 3 economy cards that can help you early game and cut something else. If the anti-synergy between Armitage Codebusting and Magnum Opus seems inefficient, I would argue that Dirty Laundry fits a control build really well because the surgical runs it makes should nearly always be successful at any point in the game, and the card is very helpful in the early game when not all the servers can be protected and Noise has the relatively unique ability to even make Archives (via virus milling) and a no-agenda HQ (via Imp) a threat.

After all that, if I was going to put Magnum Opus in this deck, my changes would be -1 Clone Chip, -3 Armitage Codebusting, +3 Dirty Laundry, +1 Magnum Opus. If we furthermore want the Stimhack synergy with Self-modifying Code (which looks a lot better when you're realistically planning to spend one of these per game getting out Magnum Opus since you only have 1 in the deck), then I think you go with +2 Stimhack, -1 D4v1d, -1 Imp.

I personally don't think you have the deck space for this though, because I think you're now going to have MU problems. Magnum Opus and Self-modifying Code are almost impossible to play together without Djinn in my experience in a Noise deck (I actually find SMC almost impossible to play without Djinn in a virus deck even without Magnum Opus), so I think you're going to need one of those slots that you want to put Stimhack in for at least 1 Djinn.

Now you're in a position where the board position that you have traded off with putting Magnum Opus in the deck is that you're realistically looking at having to spend Self-modifying Code on Djinn and on Magnum Opus at some point. If you're also using Self-modifying Code in your control-style running threat, then you're realistically looking at having to Déjà Vu the Self-modifying Code sometime during mid-game when you'd rather not have to spend the clicks to Déjà Vu the SMC, spend 2 extra to fetch your Djinn, all to avoid your MU problem, because if you can't put one or the other of SMC or Opus on a Djinn, you're going to hate your MU constraint for the rest of the game.

We might want to go with 1 Stimhack and 1 Djinn for that D4v1d and Imp we gave up earlier, but if you just go with 2 Djinn instead then you might at that point have a reasonably good chance to get one of three cards (of the 2 Djinn or 1 Magnum Opus) without having to Self-modifying Code for it, which works out great because now if you need D4v1d at only one copy, you're going to have to fetch it instead. And do you really need Stimhack if you now have the "Take 8" threat from Opus?

Final changes if I wanted to do this deck with Magnum Opus:

-3 Armitage Codebusting

+3 Dirty Laundry

-1 Clone Chip

+1 Magnum Opus

-1 D4v1d

-1 Imp

+2 Djinn

@travisrchance no offense taken, the point of discussion is to hash out why things don't work, and you do that, I can't take beef with that. Also, I can't say you're wrong at all, I've played different types of Noise decks, and they all function differently, its tough to tell on paper how things play in practice.

I think in my mind I'm seeing almost exactly @Lluluiens changes. The stimhack can let you ignore the tutor and install costs, while getting you a run, if you don't care about the BD, then no biggie, while building your board state quite well. With djinn you can host SMC and/or opus, which fixes the MU issue. In all, its probably half a step slower or maybe more, which can obviously be the difference in a win and a loss, maybe what we're thinking of is quite different.

Your deck as it sits would have to rejigger lots of slots for those changes, for benefit that may be minimal if existent at all, so yea, given your further levels of testing, you're probably right.

I didn't know @travisrchance was commenting while I was writing - after reading through his, mine, and @x3r0h0ur's comments, we're all on the same page. I meant to say the same thing as @x3r0h0ur at the end of my long post: I think in the grand fullness of the changes required to put Magnum Opus in the deck, you're at another deck which works, but it's a deck that's got quite a bit different tempo considerations than the one @travisrchance made.

@Lluluien Wow! Thorough writeup indeed! Some great points in here, though I have to admit I am not keen on the suggested alterations--though I understand this is a response to the mention of Opus.

I don't know that I would call this a turtling deck, per se, as I feel I have a good early game. The decks rocking Siphon aren't just landing those cards early game because they play them--quite the contrary, they usually have to work their ass off to land those cards BECAUSE they are expected. I find that I am landing runs in the early game compliments of SMC, which allows me to have that versatility I need, which in turn makes the corp more inclined to rez ice, spend creds, etc., which ends up keeping the tempo of the game more even keel. Yes, you can get some awk draws, just like in any deck, but if you know your matchups, face checking is a fine strategy.

Because this is Noise, the expectation that you will durdle is to your advantage. The likelihood of a naked HQ means you can often slam a Wanton without issue--this doesn't happen all the time, but it def happens enough. Also, most would not expect Noise to be leaning on breakers this much, so ICE is usually not layered too deep.

I am just not a fan of Dirty Laundry if you aren't getting a lot of click compression, as my valuation of the card without a Desperado, Testing, and/or Sucker (which is all we have) is net 2 creds (1 for the action to play it and 2 for the cost). It is often you need the creds on the front end to make runs, as the oft open Archives doesn't happen too much against a deck that can incidentally put points in the bin. I tried Laundry in the aforementioned predecessor of this deck and it just felt pretty lackluster. Armitage is a pretty basic card, but it affords us exactly what we need: versatile burst on demand. Sometimes we need 6 creds on the front to smash. Sometimes less. Sometimes we need to just spend an entire turn taking creds. Laundry comes with the assumption of naked or porous servers. As this deck attacks on many fronts, sometimes this can be tough/have a price of admission which makes Laundry a tad moot.

Mention of the increase of glacier decks is why I added the second D4v1d. Tollbooth, Archer, beefy Bioroids, Curtain Wall, these weirdo constellation ice... these are cards you will see. Having 1 D4vid, esp. if it ends up in your hand, which means you have to install it just in case, means your odds of eating something bad increase. I played 1 for about 20 games and it just isn't worth playing less, esp. for the impact it has in some matches like Blue Sun. After all, we can't SMC ALL of the cards we want out of the deck, meaning there need to be a few multiples for those odd times when your other copy is Chronos'd into oblivion, etc.

On the topic of Imp, I rate this card insanely powerful in the now. All this drip econ that is so popular. The aforementioned naked HQ runs. Munching flatline combo pieces you encounter. Needling away on R&D to see more cards. I am never, ever, ever bummed to see this card, often using my Chip/SMC to get it in play as a virtual econ save against assets and upgrades. Further, playing less viruses to include Djinn just seems counter-intuitive to me. Don't get me wrong, I love Djinn. So much. But this deck is basically playing Parasite and Imp as the spotlight viruses. Sucker is an enabler, but you only ever really want/need a single copy most times. I def rank Imp as one of the more awesome cards in this deck for all the disruption it provides and econ it saves.

Thanks for the feedback! I agree that the suggestions of this simple change to 1 Opus implies a cascading revision which will end up a quite different deck, though it may not seem it. My primary goal with this build is to prove that you can smash people into atoms without Siphons and other high impact/variance favorites. This deck is really a lot about playstyle, and skill will shine through once you get familiar with the deck.

@x3r0h0ur I think the biggest difference between the Self-modifying Code and Personal Workshop versions of the Noise control deck with regards to Stimhack is that it might be harder to get 9 credits worth of installation out of Self-modifying Code and Clone Chip (just because of their limited uses) than it is out of Stimhack since your programs are so cheap. Maybe I'm wrong about that though - if you make sure to be aware of the fact that you'll probably need two paid-speed install effects available when you do the Stimhack, that's probably good enough?

@travisrchance I've got to bug out for now so don't have a chance to read your feedback really carefully yet, but it must be said since I didn't make it clear from my earlier post that the implications of that big long ramble are that I don't think that Magnum Opus change leaves you with the same deck.

Specifically, I think your econ choices here are great for mitigating that early-game durdling problem I think Noise has, and I suspect 1) Armitage Codebusting is absolutely essential in making that work and 2) this is a major feature of your deck that's a big factor in the way it feels when you play it!

@Lluluien Agreed. This one change warps the deck and undermines a lot of what I have intentionally planned. I know many people see decks and immediately think "oh, I can make this better." I think the only weak point of this deck is playing 3 Deja--you just dont use them like turbo virus Noise.

Right now I am trying a few tweaks to increase the card draw and play more into the recursion aspect of the deck without going overboard:

-1 Data Sucker -1 Armitage +2 Inject

Alrighty, TONS more testing. I am digging the Inject inclusion, as my Deja went from feeling underwhelming to virtual tutors. The only drawback in this approach is SMC becomes diluted as the game carries on and you are trashing so many programs--which is why the recursion becomes even better. My econ is very, very stable now, my support cards getting into hand much quicker. Inject can function as an incidental burst often with such a high program yield.

So, on a whim, I decided to sub in Cerebus Rex for 1 SMC. I have been very happy with this change. So here is where we are to date from the original list:

-1 Sucker -1 Crypsis - SMC -1 Armitage +1 Rex +3 Inject

Now, I will confess, the 1 Sucker is bothering me. My fanaticism with Imp put me to a tough decision on this, but I feel the 3 is the right way (though at a cost). 1.) You only ever really want 1 Sucker online. 2.) Parasite often will just be nuking low Str ice, esp. when Grimoire is out. 3.) Imp feels like it is the best it has ever been with all these asset econ decks and greedy strategies trying to cobble together pieces--it obv makes a mill win possible when played right.

I have had so many corp players sigh as the Imps just keep coming. Against some decks, they will draw a purge, which is more tempo for me--Grimoire giving that additional counter can be nightmarish for some corp decks.

So that's that. Thoughts? @Lluluien @DrunkenGineer and everyone else.

If you're putting rex in, given the strength of imp, Uninstall starts to look pretty good. Bear with me...you have d4v1d, of which you won't need to burn a clone chip, or find a second copy of, you have imp to reset and get a mill, you have rex, which gets refreshed without burning recursion, and you have cuj0 for the same reason as rex.

Of course, the slot is the problem, I'd suggest the slot, but you're doing the testing, I thought I'd just toss that idea out there.

I definitely like inject in noise, turning 'mill' into tutor is a fine byproduct of good, cheap draw.

@x3r0h0ur I thought of this. I actually played 1 copy of Uninstall and it was neat. It's the deck space thought..., like you said.

Sorry I'm late getting back after I said I'd comment again later!

@travisrchance I'm inclined to agree with you regarding the Dirty Laundry suggestion; I mostly picked that one based on the notion that if we put Magnum Opus in the deck and wanted to continue to abide by the "no dead draws" goal you had, then the best replacement for Armitage Codebusting was Daily Casts, but you have that in the deck already too. Then I'd have picked Symmetrical Visage, which you also had, and wound up eventually at Dirty Laundry. Actually, if I was going to try to run the deck with Magnum Opus, I'd personally just leave the Armitage Codebusting, dead draw or not once Opus is in play. I think you need them to make sure you don't sacrifice too much early game tempo. All in all though, as much of an interesting thought experiment it was to go through how that one card causes such a clear, step-by-step cascade of changes, I like your version better and just wouldn't run the Magnum Opus.

With regards to the turtling comment, I don't mean to imply your deck can't get off the ground running quickly so much as I mean that in my experience with playing what (I think?) is a similar style of Noise deck, the deck seems to do best when it's used to threaten a certain baseline of steady pressure to all servers instead of being able to slam one (typically R&D) like a lot of Runner decks do. Since SMC and Clone Chip both threaten the right breaker (which sometimes is Parasite, to make matters worse for the Corp) at the right time at paid-ability speed, you may only be able to genuinely threaten one server at a time, but the Corp doesn't know which one that will be, and you won't always necessarily be making your first run against the server that they think you want to threaten. Imp in particular makes this a really dastardly choice though. Don't spend your money rezzing central ICE so you can guard that agenda you just installed in the remote instead? That's fine, lose a card and I'll run again; now Corp has the same dilemma.

Eventually a crack in the armor shows up somewhere because the Corp can't guard all 3 centrals (since your Noise, Archives is always a threat too) and a remote, and since you've always got the tools you need to murder them no matter where that crack is (ever-escalating Kati/board advancement from Visage for remote pressure, Wanton/Imp for HQ, Medium/Imp for R&D, viruses for Archives), you can always exploit the crack. In my experience, this typically gets worse and worse for the Corp as the game goes on, which is why I said it encourages turtling. Imp is a great example of this too - a lot of times the biggest benefit you get from Imp is provoking a virus wipe from the Corp; you're using Kati Jones and Symmetrical Visage as a part of your long-term economic plan, and a free turn is especially powerful for cards like this that only give you their benefit once a turn. That pushes the game out another turn longer than it might otherwise have played though, again part of why I'd call it a turtling deck.

That's not to imply it can't run though; on the contrary, if you can't run effectively for a cheap access on most turns, then you probably aren't applying enough widespread pressure to keep the screws on the Corp enough to make the pressure crack the armor somewhere like this. I think that's probably part of what makes your deck work so well for you - you've chosen an economy package that requires the absolute minimum amount of setup to power a rig that only invests in the minimum required amount of expenditure (since you get to put it out at paid speed after ICE is revealed like a Shaper would) in order to make sure the Corp knows that the pressure is on everywhere as early as turn 1.

@travisrchance So maybe it's worth distinguishing between some kind of one-run-to-rule-them all Noise mill decks that I would agree are durdling (to use your word since we need two different ones here) vs running everywhere just enough to nudge them closer to the edge of the cliff every turn so they eventually fall over. I'm calling that turtling in the sense that that plan is more effective the longer the game goes.

Do you find that to be how your deck typically plays out its wins, or are you seeking out opportunities to forcibly blow a hole somewhere and keep it open instead of letting the hole blow itself open somewhere? It's possible I'm totally off-base here!

@travisrchance I don't think you have to agonize about the -1 Datasucker decision as long as you're willing to SMC it every now and then if that's really the right move. You've got more chances to draw it as well if you're counting Injecting it into the Heap as a draw for Déjà Vu.

I think your Cerberus "Rex" H2 choice vs Gordian Blade is an interesting one though. Rex starts out 1 credit cheaper but one strength less; since it's strength 1, you'll end up pumping it's strength vs most of what you'll probably breaking with it. That means you're only coming out credits ahead on the break if there are two subroutines on the ICE. I looked at the list and it turns out there are, in fact, quite a few oft-played code gates with two subroutines, so maybe you do save 2-4 credits over the life of Cerberus "Rex" H2 vs Gordian Blade so long as you don't ever end up needing more Rex tokens than you can get without pressuring your recursion too much.

That's not the end of the story here though - installing Gordian Blade now puts some constraints on where the Corp would like to place their ICE (they can't put high strength code gates together on the same server anymore), and you add a few constraints to their ICE already just by virtue of playing a Parasite recursion deck.

Between that benefit and never having to worry about pressuring your recursion, do you think it might be worth testing whether or not you're better off putting Gordian Blade in instead of Cerberus "Rex" H2?

(As an aside to the earlier credit comparison between the two breakers, it's worth mentioning Yagura as an exceptional case here. Cerberus "Rex" H2 kicks the shit out of Yagura compared to Gordian Blade, and that card's getting played right now with Jinteki being so popular.)

@Lluluien Again, great/well thought out reply, mein freund! I agree with your estimation of how this deck plays, though, in my gaming vocabulary, "turtling" falls under the tunnel vision/non-interactive definition--which is more of a board gaming thing, I suppose.

I see your point on Rex/Gordian, and shall consider giving it a try. I suppose I wanted to put in more low-attachment programs to change things up as needed.

@travisrchance It's just a thought on the Gordian Blade; you're right that the Cerberus "Rex" H2 is more low-attachment. After considering the magnitude to which it is lower-attachment though (probably 2-4 credits less the first time you empty it), I'm just wondering if your read on the choice is still that those 2-4 credits of savings are worth it. I would think this would be down to whether or not you're ever emptying it in a game and then recurring it to get more tokens. After the cost of the recursion, you're probably breaking even credit-wise vs Gordian Blade, but you saddled yourself with the need to have the recursion available at the proper moment (which 90% of the time probably won't be an issue with this deck) but gave up the strength-retention quality of Gordian Blade as well.

I guess this is a really long-winded way of asking: "How frequently in your experience w/ your Cerberus "Rex" H2 testing so far did you have to recur it to recharge the power tokens?"

There could be one other use I'd expect to be way out there as far as how frequently it was useful, but there's a small-yet-non-zero chance that you could close out a game w/ multiple runs on a lightly guarded HQ or R&D by having tokens on Rex that you could blow to get past a Pop-Up Window or Yagura while you were broke. Having one of those ICE alone guarding R&D doesn't seem all that uncommon in certain points in the game in my experience, it's just that against this deck, I expect to have ruthlessly murdered every one of those kinds of ICE with my Parasites instead of using my decoder ;)

@Lluluienpart of me wants to try Cyber-Cypher. It was sooooo good for me in Exile, and I wonder, as a cost-efficient threat, if it would do the same here. After all, we wanna use Yog anyway, so why not let the b in plan b mean beefy.

Any wiggle room to fit 1-2 Hacktivist Meeting in this deck, you think? I feel like that card punishes a lot of what's good in the Corp meta-game right now.

I think with 3 Inject and 3 I've Had Worse that maybe you could get by having a few one-of events that you might Déjà Vu? Do you think there's any merit to the possibility of:

-1 Wanton Destruction

+1 Hacktivist Meeting

I'm inclined to stick a copy of Vamp in here somewhere as well, but damned if I know what you cut for it.

Does that put too much pressure on your Déjà Vu? I think both these cards are good enough to justify their slot even outside of the matchups they're particularly good against, but if you are playing a Corp that's trying to hide Fast Advance cards in HQ or rez all-of-the-upgrades-and-@!%(ing-Sundews against you, do you like them enough to deal with the additional pressure on Déjà Vu so that you can replay them?

Or on the other hand, do you just decide you want one or the other of the cards bad enough that you want the extra draw probability from having 2 copies?

@travisrchance Curious what your thoughts on this are given all the testing you've done with the deck.

@travisrchance I actually was kind of surprised you didn't say Cyber-Cypher when you mentioned Cerberus "Rex" H2 earlier, given your experience with your Dirty Hands deck! I'd still be inclined to think I would personally end up with Gordian Blade, but I think you can make a strong case for either of these three.

@Lluluien I am not keen on Hactivist--I think it is a little more conditional than it may appear (def not great against some corp builds). Wanton is just nuts, nuts, nuts. I have found that the ambush is obv just better than deja, where they can see it coming. Anyway, Hactivist is just nowhere near on par.

Cypher is proving to be radical sauce deluxe as a contingency.

@travisrchance Think I'm going to be stealing your deck for the Geekway tournament :) I keep waffling on what to take for Runner but this kind of deck is the kind I've always used to best effect, and I don't think I could do any better than to take one that's been run through the test grinder by someone that knows what he's doing.

Anything else you've changed in recent testing? Have you settled on Cyber-Cypher being the right choice for your 3-influence decoder?

Do you have enough economy to support Vamp? Where the hell could you fit 1x of it in if I threatened to drink all your beer if you didn't? :P

@Lluluien Oh, neat! I will be in a booth at Geekway (for my company Action Phase). Come say hi!

I love Cypher, as it meant to be there to get past Merlins, Lotus Fields, and other beefy Code Gates--which D4v1d can sometimes tackle.

Vamp is waaay not right in this deck. You have so many resources, so you can't float the tag, meaning pay 2 on top of whatever you are spending into it. On top of this, it doesn't really fit the strategy at all, not like Wanton does. The econ can stutter, as Anarchs are prone to do and I would much rather spend credits to get into servers than zero sum the corp. Vamp, as we all know, just isn't Siphon good. Maybe if the deck had Opus, but even then...

@travisrchance That's exactly the info I wanted; I like the card well enough that I tend to have 1+ Vamp in just about every Runner deck I run, but I frankly don't know where I'd cut something here and if the economy can be touchy at times anyway, I'll take your advice that it's best not to try it.

I'll definitely come by to say hi at the convention! I'm glad I mentioned something because I don't know if I'd have realized you would be there otherwise. I didn't realize Action Phase was behind Heroes Wanted until I looked your company up to see what you'd be doing at the con. Congrats on your great release! I haven't played yet, but it's on my radar because it's getting glowing reviews. I'll look forward to a demo from the man himself :)

Sorry for the dumb question (beginner here): If I would get a Gordian Blade over Cerberus "Rex" H2, should I still stick with Yog.0? I don't think you have the MU to have both installed at the same time? Or is it more a situational card? Isn't it fairly limited? Also what's the point of Cerberus "Cuj.0" H3? Mimic < 3 str, D4v1d > 5 str, so Cuj would just be for str 4 and extremely expensive for everything above? I don't want to criticize your deck(-choices), just get a better overall understanding, before playing it.

Thanks a lot.

@gandrasch No such thing as a stupid question. I am playing 1 cyber-cypher now over Rex/blade. Both it and Cujo are there for those times that you need to pump past what I fixed breaker offers. You won't ever really want a redundant breaker type in play. You just need to remember that sometimes you won't draw one of the copies and need to tutor the other one out. If not that, someone could always remove it with something like Chronos project, so having a back up and play is always great. Further there is no guarantee that you can get a sucker lock going, especially with the deck only playing two now.