Infinite Loup [5-1, 3rd Place @ CBI]

DoomRat 2401

This is the loup list NetDad and I have been working on for ages and I played at CBI. It went 5-1 and was good enough to drag me to third place in the cut in spite of my poor play at times. We've changed the name from Buffet of Chips to Infinite Loup. I'm dubious we can get people to stop calling it "The Loup Deck", but figure it can't hurt to try, right? I've detailed our other changes to the list below.

Changes I Made

Since NetDad and I published Buffet of Chips, we identified a few issues we wanted to resolve. Specifically, we were worried about:

  • Getting rushed out early behind Magnet. This was especially problematic against PD, where the game often devolved into a "Where is Buzzsaw?" check to determine the winner. We tried 2x Diesel first to try and speed up the list, then changed over to Nuka since it produces more cards and can come off The Price. I had submitted my list with two Nukas on Wednesday when someone mentioned that Janktivist had been on Boomerang for the list he played at the New Years Showdown. I spent a lot of time Friday waffling between the two and couldn't decide, so I played one of each. I think it might be correct though. Two ways to beat magnet in 40 cards felt like enough, and Nuka was good value several times on the day.

  • Corps (especially Ob) making stacks of little sentries against Revolver. This was something that I never actually lost to, but happened often enough and caused enough close calls that I wanted to do something to address it. We tried Mimic for a bit, but it felt especially bad as this list rarely installs even one sentry breaker, so why are we bringing two. The criteria for the slot was "I need to be able to Simulchip this card in to deal with Stavrún" and "I need to be able to to turn money into breaking an unlimited number of small sentries" and the only card that does that is Num, even if it does neither job particularly well. I only installed it once on the day, but it did its job against ManInTheMoon, who had a pile of Tithe and Formicary in Ob.

Changes I might make in the future

  • Chisel: In the CBI cut I managed to squeak out a game vs. Wikignometry's Azmari glacier, but it took some really tight play and some very lucky pulls to get there, and I don't feel like the matchup is very good. This lists usual play vs. glacier is to get them to rez their big ice, put Tranquilizer on it, and then dare the corp to rez it again as a rental. But the value proposition of that rental is much better when they can make me hit it three times on the rental turn instead of one with Border Controls. My thinking right now is that going in and chiseling the BCs on a turn they aren't trying to score is going to be the best way to diffuse that, but I haven't actually tried it yet. Hush may also have value there.

  • Sunset: Now that CBIs over, I'm planning to have a look at the sunset format. My expectation is that this list is still really good there, as it only requires minimal changes. My thinking right now is -1 Paladin Poemu, -1 Cleaver, +1 Chisel, +1 Corroder and it should be fine.

Old Man Yells at Cloud

(Changes other people make that I disagree with)

With much effort, I resisted the urge to call this section (or the whole decklist) "YOU'RE ALL DOING IT WRONG, STOP!" Anyways, I've listed a couple of changes to the list I've seen a lot that I feel were ill-advised:

  • Don't cut Clot: Your other tech cards are pretty fungible Tranq could be replaced by Hippo to deal with big ice, Boomerang could be another Buzzsaw or more draw so you don't lose to magnet. But there's not really another card you can play to not get crushed by rush ob. With it, that match is a knife fight but very winnable (and fun). Without it I think the win % drops into the 20 or 30s. Don't cut it.

  • Don't go over decksize: Going over deck size is easy to justify when your first card isn't that much more valuable than your 41st (or 46th, or whatever) card. This has been the case historically several times, especially with Big MaxX and later Big Hoshiko decks. There are so many good orange cards you can shuffle a big pile of them together and the results are going to be good. This is not the case here though. Imp is a much, MUCH more valuable card to this deck than any other card. Every card you add past 40 makes it less likely you have Imp. I'd play this list at 30 cards if that was legal. Don't go over deck size.

  • Don't Play Gachapon: Just to be clear, I think Gachapon is really cool. I'm a card carry member of the Gachapon fan club. I love Gachapon. It does not belong in this deck. Why would we play an efficiency card that does not trigger Steelskin Scarring and Strike Fund when we're not maxed out on the ones that do. Maybe if someone manages to find 3 more slots for efficiency cards, then I could see adding another two Moshing and one Gacha. Otherwise leave it for Hoshiko.

  • Don't run HQ so much: This isn't really so much a decklist change as a playstyle issue, but I think other people attack HQ with this list way too much. There are exceptions, but very frequently there isn't anything we care about in there, especially if the remote is locked down. Instead, focus on R&D. Every card trashed from R&D shortens the game by one turn and puts you one turn closer to the corp conceding because they can't win before they run out of deck. Note: This is especially true vs. Weyland, as in addition to the other reasons, there's also a pile of Winchester on HQ we'd just rather not deal with.

Wrap-Up

Thanks to everyone who helped with list. NetDad obviously, everyone in the Austin City Grid Workshop (particularly Paillu who reminded me boomerang existed), JeffN who put up with me bringing tournament decks against his jank at the local meetup, QTM for publishing the lotsawordscana list that I just copied wholesale for my corp and everyone on jnet who hung out after games to talk about Loup. Appreciate you all!

5 comments
23 Jan 2024 Satoshi

Don't run HQ so much: This isn't really so much a decklist change as a playstyle issue, but I think other people attack HQ with this list way too much. There are exceptions, but very frequently there isn't anything we care about in there, especially if the remote is locked down. Instead, focus on R&D. Every card trashed from R&D shortens the game by one turn and puts you one turn closer to the corp conceding because they can't win before they run out of deck.

I want to offer some counterpoints, because I really do think that vs. many (most?) corps, trashing things from HQ is more valuable than trashing things from R&D.

  • Cards in HQ, the corp has already spent a click to draw. Cards in R&D, they haven't. So trashing from HQ imposes a tempo cost on the corp that trashing from R&D doesn't.
  • Many corps simply can't win if you imp their hand. They need to hold onto Punitive Counterstrike or Neurospike or End of the Line or Biotic Labor until the right moment. Denying the corp's game plan is one path to victory.

Tried to find similar comments from others, closest I found was here: netrunnerdb.com

24 Jan 2024 Doomrat2

@Satoshi

I agree with the point you made in general, but for this runner specifically I think the value of HQ trashes tends to be very low. Once the list is setup it is very hard for the corp to win while you still have Simulchips on the board. Punitive Counterstrike does nothing becaues we're going to Imp any 5/3s we access, Neurospike can't kill us unless they somehow secure the remote, Oppo Research does effectively nothing vs. us so long as we stay under threat and fast advance tools can't fire through Clot. So for the that period, those cards are all essentially blank. In addition to those, HQ will be full of agendas we don't want to steal and ice that costs 1 credit to break with Cleaver/Buzzsaw. None of those things are particularly concerning. What is concerning is that the corp might stall and jam garbage in the remote until we run out of chips. We're lacking a proper win condition (and don't want to steal agendas anyway), so if we want to make the game end we need to at least threaten to the corp with a mill victory.

There are exceptions of course. Against AgInfusion HQ accesses get higher in value because if you steal an early Regenesis they can't give you six points on archives (trash punitive from HQ is not going to help with this, the odds of them not picking up at least one on 7 - 14 BacPro cards is minimal). Also, the deck is surprisingly vulnerable to Public Trail, so if I suspect that all often reprioritize HQ. But those aren't the usual cases.

24 Jan 2024 DoomRat

@Satoshi

I agree with the point you made in general, but for this runner specifically I think the value of HQ trashes tends to be very low. Once the list is setup it is very hard for the corp to win while you still have Simulchips on the board. Punitive Counterstrike does nothing becaues we're going to Imp any 5/3s we access, Neurospike can't kill us unless they somehow secure the remote, Oppo Research does effectively nothing vs. us so long as we stay under threat and fast advance tools can't fire through Clot. So for the that period, those cards are all essentially blank. In addition to those, HQ will be full of agendas we don't want to steal and ice that costs 1 credit to break with Cleaver/Buzzsaw. None of those things are particularly concerning. What is concerning is that the corp might stall and jam garbage in the remote until we run out of chips. We're lacking a proper win condition (and don't want to steal agendas anyway), so if we want to make the game end we need to at least threaten to the corp with a mill victory.

There are exceptions of course. Against AgInfusion HQ accesses get higher in value because if you steal an early Regenesis they can't give you six points on archives (trash punitive from HQ is not going to help with this, the odds of them not picking up at least one on 7 - 14 BacPro cards is minimal). Also, the deck is surprisingly vulnerable to Public Trail, so if I suspect that all often reprioritize HQ. But those aren't the usual cases.

25 Jan 2024 tzeentchling

One quick comment - bringing this into Sunset also bans Boomerang, which is one of your big changes to the deck. Thoughts to adjust?

26 Jan 2024 DoomRat

@tzeentchling Ah right! Forgot that. Will probably go back to two Nuka until I think of something better.